|
Giro d'Italia 2016 - Week 2 (17th - 22nd May)
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 19-05-2016 23:26
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
Choklets wrote:
How often do we come about a world championship fit for real sprinters?
Enough times.
Put your focus on an event that is still 5 months to go and shine 2-3 days at the le Tour. Injuries, form issues on the way don't play a role, it's better to throw away a shot at red jersey. Is it that worthless of a jersey? Is there no time to recover properly for le Tour? Sprinters ride in Grupetto in GTs and they mostly get around good enough. If a sprinter is tired he should maybe cut some small races but don't withdraw when he is leading a competition.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 20-05-2016 07:34
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
You could probably help that problem by not backloading the GTs: spread the sprints stages evenly across the 3 weeks and add some decent mountain stages (harder than Abetone 2015 and Roccaraso 2016) in the first week.
That would probably also make for a better race, but more importantly, give the sprinter a better reason the stay in the race. I don't blame Greipel, I think its a right decision from his and his team's perspective, but its nevertheless sad.
That is a very good point and I agree it would give a sprinter like Greipel a better argument to make to Lotto to keep him in the race. You could clearly see in the post race interview that it wasn't Greipel decision to pull out but his teams choice, we all see how Greipel gives his all in basically every race he enters so I don't doubt him wanting to honour the race. Also can we really blame Lotto management? Cycling has HUGE sponsorship issues and the biggest stage for a sponsor is the TDF (which is a pity but it's a fact) so it makes sense that the management would pull one of the biggest chances of stage wins in the Tour out of the Giro to make sure he has the best opportunity to shine in that race.
I can understand why people would be annoyed at this and I personally want to see the best stay in the race but the reality of the situation at the moment dictates different
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 20-05-2016 07:41
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Shonak wrote:
If all they care about is stage wins, they should do that and go for their bunch sprints.
Thus the problem is, they don't value red jersey nor green jersey. Kittel only finishes a Tour because of CHamps Elysses. The way sprinters have been sidelined by $agan in this competition in the past four years is not simply down to exceptentional consistency & versatility of $agan, it's also because none of them really knows how to fight for a jersey. How do they expect to win GT jerseys when they are unable to defend it when they wear it, both pulled out wearing the damn thing.
At the tour top 5-6 sprinters go after intermediate sprint points. Why? To keep green possibility alive ..this has nothing to do about stage wins. Cav. has been after green 4 times..fact.
Boonen when he was sprinter was at tour to win green.
We never forget Zabel..O'Grady green fight.
Sprinters are after green jersey. Riders like Sagan, Thor...not fastest sprinters. But can collect points where sprinters are already dropped. |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 23:39
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 20-05-2016 07:47
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Shonak wrote:
Choklets wrote:
How often do we come about a world championship fit for real sprinters?
Enough times.
Put your focus on an event that is still 5 months to go and shine 2-3 days at the le Tour. Injuries, form issues on the way don't play a role, it's better to throw away a shot at red jersey. Is it that worthless of a jersey? Is there no time to recover properly for le Tour? Sprinters ride in Grupetto in GTs and they mostly get around good enough. If a sprinter is tired he should maybe cut some small races but don't withdraw when he is leading a competition.
Even if you cut out the some small races it wouldn't matter much, racing over 3 weeks is still racing over 3 weeks so having 2 GT's in the legs would be a disadvantage. I don't disagree with you about this and would like to see these guys stick around to the end or at least try to do that health permitting but it's just not how it works at the moment. Lets hope that this changes
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-05-2016 08:11
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Shonak wrote:With such an attitude it's no wonder none of them have won the green jersey against $agan. 
You think the dont stand a chance because of attitude? Funny, one would guess the dont stand a chance because of sheer superiority and all around skills of Sagan, not because they dont care properly (i seriously had this discussion with Guido here few years back). 
Your second post about how it is not about all around skills and superiority of Sagan is not even funny if meant seriously, come on?
I am also not a fan of sprinters pulling out of GTs, every rider should try to finish a race.
On another note, very much looking forward to today, if Nibali will try something and Valverde will mark him, possibly sending Amador to some attack again?
|
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-05-2016 08:17
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Winning margins for green at Tour last four years were 141, 97, 149, 66.
Yep, seems likely that little bit more of dedication from others would turn that around. 
|
| |
|
|
| Luxemburger |
Posted on 20-05-2016 08:37
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1215
Joined: 22-07-2014
PCM$: 200.00
|
Shonak wrote:
Strydz wrote:
And that's Greipel done for the race, he almost looked disappointed to say he was going home
Why does he go home? Apparently red jersey isn't even worth to fight for when twice the leader of the competition withdraws. With such an attitude it's no wonder none of them have won the green jersey against $agan.
Maybe they just withdraw so that they finally can win the green jersey? |
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 20-05-2016 08:50
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Winning margins for green at Tour last four years were 141, 97, 149, 66.
Yep, seems likely that little bit more of dedication from others would turn that around.
Of course they should contest the jersey but the best way a standard sprinter can take on Sagan is to win stages and build up points that way as Sagan can gain points on so many more stages (which is what the comp is all about as it's not a sprinters jersey) It isn't a lack of dedication from riders like Greipel, it's just that they are currently outgunned by a rider who is made for the Green
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 20-05-2016 09:07
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
Avin please, learn to read properly, I said it's not simply dowm to sagan's qualities which are exceptional.. ofc his quality plays a major role, that is why a red jersey should be valuable bc green jersey is almost out of reach for every other rider. With their attitude i am not surprised tho that they dont a chance.
Edited by Shonak on 20-05-2016 09:13
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Choklets |
Posted on 20-05-2016 09:14
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 318
Joined: 18-07-2014
PCM$: 200.00
|
One point is still missing, they quite so that they can start in multiple GTs to please us, the fans. They could even start at the Vuelta.
I, personally, rather see the top sprinters fighting it out on all 3 GTs than having a GT with only 2nd rate sprinters present.
Points jerysey can only be worn for 3 weeks max, the rainbow one for a year.
Sagan won't stand a chance against them in a real sprint on real sprint stage
so the comparision is between apples and pears, imo. |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-05-2016 09:27
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Strydz wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Winning margins for green at Tour last four years were 141, 97, 149, 66.
Yep, seems likely that little bit more of dedication from others would turn that around.
Of course they should contest the jersey but the best way a standard sprinter can take on Sagan is to win stages and build up points that way as Sagan can gain points on so many more stages (which is what the comp is all about as it's not a sprinters jersey) It isn't a lack of dedication from riders like Greipel, it's just that they are currently outgunned by a rider who is made for the Green
My post screamed "sarcasm" mate. 
|
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 20-05-2016 09:31
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Strydz wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Winning margins for green at Tour last four years were 141, 97, 149, 66.
Yep, seems likely that little bit more of dedication from others would turn that around.
Of course they should contest the jersey but the best way a standard sprinter can take on Sagan is to win stages and build up points that way as Sagan can gain points on so many more stages (which is what the comp is all about as it's not a sprinters jersey) It isn't a lack of dedication from riders like Greipel, it's just that they are currently outgunned by a rider who is made for the Green
My post screamed "sarcasm" mate.
ah I know that, I was also agreeing with you
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-05-2016 09:32
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Shonak wrote:
Avin please, learn to read properly, I said it's not simply dowm to sagan's qualities which are exceptional.. ofc his quality plays a major role, that is why a red jersey should be valuable bc green jersey is almost out of reach for every other rider. With their attitude i am not surprised tho that they dont a chance.
I read it properly and now i read the same and still dont agree. It is only about his quality that nobody stands a chance, nothing else. Only thing is, that other probably realized that they can do maximum and still came short (Goss, Greipel, Cavendish all learned that lesson). But it does not mean that if they will try again harder, they will suceed. That would need another rule change, that can happen, as it looks like that ASO is desperate to strip him from the jersey...or Riis dream, 15 flat stages.
|
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 20-05-2016 09:36
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Shonak wrote:
Avin please, learn to read properly, I said it's not simply dowm to sagan's qualities which are exceptional.. ofc his quality plays a major role, that is why a red jersey should be valuable bc green jersey is almost out of reach for every other rider. With their attitude i am not surprised tho that they dont a chance.
But the sponsor (most not all) wants stage wins on the biggest stage, so toughing it out to win the Red at the Giro isn't as valuable than a stage win at the TDF. That is why riders are getting pressure from the team to drop out and get ready for the TDF
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 20-05-2016 12:36
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Firsanov should have gone to the breakaway.Maybe Hesjedal as well.
Edited by Forever the Best on 20-05-2016 12:43
|
| |
|
|
| roturn |
Posted on 20-05-2016 12:37
|
Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
|
The breakaway is at 32 riders right now including Ulissi.
Already big enough threat and I guess if more than 1-2 top20 riders had joined, there never would have been a gap.
Now it`s just interesting how they try to handle the situation without giving Ulissi too much room. |
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 20-05-2016 12:42
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
roturn wrote:
The breakaway is at 32 riders right now including Ulissi.
Already big enough threat and I guess if more than 1-2 top20 riders had joined, there never would have been a gap.
Now it`s just interesting how they try to handle the situation without giving Ulissi too much room. Dunno,Ulissi is there.Hesjedal might not be allowed but I think Firsanov would have been allowed since he is 17th overall 4:59 behind. |
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 20-05-2016 12:43
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Gap is being closed.Only 1'13 |
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 20-05-2016 12:49
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Formolo on the attack as well
EDIT:It is Dombrowski,not Formolo |
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 20-05-2016 13:03
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Betancur
It was Visconti
Edited by Forever the Best on 20-05-2016 13:06
|
| |
|
