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The Difficult Topics
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| miggi133 |
Posted on 27-10-2012 19:05
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cactus-jack wrote:
And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. I was only trying to prove a point to those who ment the US education system was subpar compared to Europe. Regardless of which criteria you use, it's "common knowledge" that many of the institutions in the US and UK are amongst the best in the world.
Sure, if you look at it as a whole than nations such as the US which has a huge amount of universities will come out badly. Here in Norway there are only 8 universities (it's actually just 4, the other ones are a university in name) so statisticly we probably won't do to bad.
Now thats not true! Prestigewise? Ye!s Money wise? maybe, Teaching wise? No!
There are a lot of Universities loosing points in those "rankings" baécause they are not in an English speaking country and because they offer only a certain amount or no courses in english. to say that US and UK unis are amongst the best in the world is just plain stupid... The most spoken language at internatioanl level is English, cause everybody learns it. So obviously, a portugese kid who has laerned english and not any other language will either study in a portugese speaking or an english speaking country... Will that kid get the best education possible? NO! Because he cant know if a University in say France or Germany would have provided him with a better education becuase he had no language basis to ever attend any university in France or Germany. And thats what makes rankings like those useless. They go after a global perspective more than anything else and if you believe that every University in the world that teaches in english is to be counted in such a ranking, than I have to disappoint! A lot of German Universities still teach sciences solely in German and they are a lot better than the likes of Imperial or the Idea-League in doing so! Why? Well because not too long ago, the universal language for Science was German! And that can be translated to any other subject! Just to say that US and UK Colleges are better because of some ranking or their teachhing language Is idiotic. The whole point of this ranking system can be dubbed as non-existent or downright useless because it favours English speaking universities.
And he who believes in Rankings and decides to go to a university on the basis of those rankings is just a sad and pathetic individual in my eyes.
I am sorry for this harsh tone and all the curse words in this comment but somehow things have fallen together in this order! thus this comment should not be read as a personal response but a generalised comment!
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 27-10-2012 19:21
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And he who believes in Rankings and decides to go to a university on the basis of those rankings is just a sad and pathetic individual in my eyes.
Choosing to go to a university based on its prestige is a perfectly logical thing to do - how else do you thiink employers value degrees? |
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| miggi133 |
Posted on 27-10-2012 19:38
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If you read correctly, I said rankings. I never said that rankings and prestige are the same. Some rankings are based on prestige, but that doesnt mean that they accurately show which university is the most prestigious...
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 28-10-2012 01:04
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miggi133 wrote:
If you read correctly, I said rankings. I never said that rankings and prestige are the same. Some rankings are based on prestige, but that doesnt mean that they accurately show which university is the most prestigious...
They tend to follow each other... |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 28-10-2012 09:46
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I disagree that money and quality go hand in hand 100%.
You can have the greatest facilities but still have crap courses, while someone can get a top education for free in the library..
More important than money, big buildings, clean toilets and whatnot is the quality of the given courses, and money's no guarantee for that. |
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| miggi133 |
Posted on 28-10-2012 09:59
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Ian Butler wrote:
I disagree that money and quality go hand in hand 100%.
You can have the greatest facilities but still have crap courses, while someone can get a top education for free in the library..
More important than money, big buildings, clean toilets and whatnot is the quality of the given courses, and money's no guarantee for that.
Amen!
Excactley what im feeling!
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 28-10-2012 10:03
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Big money, big prestige=big professors.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 28-10-2012 10:18
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Still no guarantee.
My dad's a math professor and has connections with many math professors in the world. The most intelligent ones aren't in Oxford, let me tell you that! |
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| miggi133 |
Posted on 28-10-2012 10:24
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Levi4life wrote:
Big money, big prestige=big expenditure in researchers. Cut back in teaching quality
I fixed that for you...
Actually in the US its this way very often:
Big Money & Big Prestige=Big Football program! And the other athletics have to be accounted for! Just so you know (or mabe yo do):Brady Hoke (HC of the Michigan Football Program has a total annual salary of 2 million dollars. Thats 2 Million that could have gone into creating 4-5 top payed teaching positions.
And thats only the 2 million for 1 person. The whole sports programmes are subsidised in the multiple tens of millions per annum. Big money thus does not equal top teaching. And Prestige ranks from the quality of their athletic programs as well...
Edited by miggi133 on 28-10-2012 10:33
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 28-10-2012 10:33
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And a guy like Robert Reich is at Berkeley and Paul Krugman is at Princeton. They get a pretty penny and a cushy post at a prestigous U
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 28-10-2012 10:49
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Actually. Big prestige attracts only pseudo-intellectuals, professors who care about prestige.
But newsflash, the very best ones are those who don't give a rat's ass about prestige  |
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Posted on 22-11-2024 21:01
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 28-10-2012 11:57
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Ian Butler wrote:
Actually. Big prestige attracts only pseudo-intellectuals, professors who care about prestige.
But newsflash, the very best ones are those who don't give a rat's ass about prestige
Big prestige = big money = big salary.
Even professors who do not care about the prestig will care about their salary.
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 28-10-2012 12:04
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So Nobel winning economist Paul Krugman is a Pseudo Intellectual? Robert Reich, former Labor Secretary to the President of the United States, lecturing to packed classes of undergrads only cares of prestige? I think your dichotomy is a bit too dichotomy-ish. Those guys could work anywhere in the world, for any number of MNCs for much more than they make as a professor and yet they chose to teach. So what if they go to Berkeley instead of Chico State, or the high school down the street? Aren't Universities allowed to compete, to bring in the best?
I really don't understand the hostility to these places. I've been rejected from plenty of them. I would have loved to go to Berkeley. As it is, I'm paying about $20,000(this number subject to change, pending the election (there is a ballot measure, which if it fails my tuition goes up again)) a year for my Uni. That's out of my pocket. I'd bet $20,000 that's more than the average European Uni student pays. I'll be $40,000 in the hole before I start looking for a career, assuming I don't end up in grad school, and to afford that I'd need to enter the military. And I'm just happy to be here.
And my Uni has a dumpy little soccer stadium that seats a few hundred. They made a major upgrade over the summer, adding 2 trailers, home and away, with a massage table and a few benches inside. They got a deal from a local businessman. This way the players don't have to walk to the locker rooms in the gymnasium, which hasn't been renovated since the 60's. We don't even have a football team. The average American University is not paying millions for it's football program.
Our University got a few hundred million dollars in grant funds, and they're building a hospital for the med students. That seems like a solid, long term, student outcome oriented project to me.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 28-10-2012 12:05
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felix_29 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Actually. Big prestige attracts only pseudo-intellectuals, professors who care about prestige.
But newsflash, the very best ones are those who don't give a rat's ass about prestige
Big prestige = big money = big salary.
Even professors who do not care about the prestig will care about their salary.
Not necessarily.
A mate of my dad's so intelligent and he won the Abel-prize (nobel prize for Maths), 750.000 dollars.
They asked him: what will you do with your money?
He: Buy a present for my wife and go eating.
He couldn't care less about money. And that's not an exception. |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 28-10-2012 12:09
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I'll be £54,000 in debt before I leave uni.  |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 28-10-2012 12:10
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Damn, how's that? |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 28-10-2012 12:22
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Ian Butler wrote:
Still no guarantee.
My dad's a math professor and has connections with many math professors in the world. The most intelligent ones aren't in Oxford, let me tell you that!
Yes. Yes they are: https://www.ox.ac....nners.html
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 28-10-2012 12:23
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Ian Butler wrote:
felix_29 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Actually. Big prestige attracts only pseudo-intellectuals, professors who care about prestige.
But newsflash, the very best ones are those who don't give a rat's ass about prestige
Big prestige = big money = big salary.
Even professors who do not care about the prestig will care about their salary.
Not necessarily.
A mate of my dad's so intelligent and he won the Abel-prize (nobel prize for Maths), 750.000 dollars.
They asked him: what will you do with your money?
He: Buy a present for my wife and go eating.
He couldn't care less about money. And that's not an exception.
But still, there´s an exceptional high number of Nobel Price winners among the "prestigious" universities. Talking about mathmatics, most Fields Medals winners worked for one of them, and most Abel Prize winners either studied at one of them or worked there at some point in their life.
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| jph27 |
Posted on 28-10-2012 12:24
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
I'll be £54,000 in debt before I leave uni.
I daresay I'll be in a similar or worse predicament seeing as I won't be going to Uni for another three years and tuition fees keep rising. |
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| miggi133 |
Posted on 28-10-2012 12:31
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
I'll be £54,000 in debt before I leave uni.
Hah! Im so glad i did not go to imperial! I only pay 2.5 grand a year as a so called student contribution and the irish state covers me tuition (same for all EU students)...
Btw, jph, there is always the option to go to scotland and study there. Its the same system as in ireland (no tuition fees)... Why all you guys want to stay in england is beyond me! I mean, whats so great about paying 10 grand [in €] just for tuiution alone every year, not considering the living costs...
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