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News in April
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| kumazan |
Posted on 20-04-2013 15:45
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issoisso wrote:
Name races that end with bunch sprints up a 1km climb at 9.5%
What does it matter that 3 minutes are different if the previous 5h are exactly the same?
arthon wrote:
Besides, was there an unworthy winner in the last 15 years or so? I'm sure the winner always is one of the arguably strongest riders on the day. Sure, you can say that a 20-40 km effort is a bigger proof of a rider's ability or form, but that uphill sprint also is quite a challenge.
That's part of the problem. Yes, the strongest always wins, because the race has become a W/kg contest, with only positioning in the last 3km and choosing the moment to launch the sprint making it different to measure the power a rider can sustain for 3 minutes and dividing it by his weight.
Edited by kumazan on 20-04-2013 15:48
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 20-04-2013 15:49
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Tour de France Champion
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Welcome to modern cycling Kumazan!
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 13:31
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 20-04-2013 16:07
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TheManxMissile wrote:
But isn't ever race irrelevant because in the end it comes down to that final result?
You can't force the riders to race in a certain way. Clearly that is the way to win the race, so that is what the riders aim for.
Maybe you didn't get my point, but as kumazan stated, the race comes down to riders' positioning skills and their maximal power over 3 minutes divided by their weight (bike and equipment included). Arguably there's also a bit of effort strategy coming in the mix.
Other races (name almost any), can unfold in different ways, the winner can be decided before those last three minutes. FW particularity is that anything prior to the moment where riders start positioning for the last climb is (almost) irrelevant.
Of course you can't force riders to ride a certain way, but if the route was slightly changed, maybe it'd offer a bit more different scenarios to decide the winner. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-04-2013 18:02
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Tour de France Champion
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kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Name races that end with bunch sprints up a 1km climb at 9.5%
What does it matter that 3 minutes are different if the previous 5h are exactly the same?
A. That's not what you argued. You argued it should be changed because it ends in a sprint. There are no others that end with such a sprint
B. So you don't like it that part of the race is the same and part is different so you want to change it to make it all the same?
Edited by issoisso on 20-04-2013 18:03
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 20-04-2013 18:38
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If I see W/kg one more time today, I'm gonna blow  |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 20-04-2013 18:41
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Tour de France Champion
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Ian Butler wrote:
If I see W/kg one more time today, I'm gonna blow
W/kg 
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 20-04-2013 18:44
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
If I see W/kg one more time today, I'm gonna blow
W/kg
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| kumazan |
Posted on 20-04-2013 18:52
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Team Leader
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issoisso wrote:
A. That's not what you argued. You argued it should be changed because it ends in a sprint. There are no others that end with such a sprint
I argued that it should be changed because it's boring and predictable, not because it ends in a sprint.
issoisso wrote:
B. So you don't like it that part of the race is the same and part is different so you want to change it to make it all the same?
a) Part is the same and part is different? More like it's 99% the same.
b) To make it all the same? The same from what?
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| fernando97 |
Posted on 20-04-2013 18:56
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Small Tour Specialist
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https://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/l...rrari.html |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 20-04-2013 18:58
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Not related to the discussion above, but as we don't have a topic yet, FDJeux have announced their line up for the upcoming Giro :
Nacer Bouhanni (FRA)
Sandy Casar (FRA)
Murillo Fischer (BRA)
Arnold Jeannesson (FRA)
Johan Le Bon (FRA)
Francis Mourey (FRA)
Laurent Pichon (FRA)
Anthony Roux (FRA)
Jussi Veikkanen (FIN)
Subs :
Dominique Rollin (CAN)
Kenny Elissonde (FRA)
I wish Elissonde would find a sport in the team. He's a promising climber. Bouhanni could grab a couple of wins there, depending on which other sprinters will be present. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:04
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
A. That's not what you argued. You argued it should be changed because it ends in a sprint. There are no others that end with such a sprint
I argued that it should be changed because it's boring and predictable, not because it ends in a sprint.
No you didn't:
kumazan wrote:
I think there are enough races/stages finishing in a bunch sprint already.
kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
B. So you don't like it that part of the race is the same and part is different so you want to change it to make it all the same?
a) Part is the same and part is different? More like it's 99% the same.
b) To make it all the same? The same from what?
Same as most other races. This race is different. That's a good thing.
Yours is the kind of thinking that killed Paris-Tours's importance by taking away the parts of the route that made it unique
Typical.
"We'll talk after [last race before I take a break]"
Then after the race he disappears, doesn't return calls of journalists trying to find him, and by the time he shows up again at the Tour de Suisse it's "you should've asked after Romandie, now I'm focusing on this race". After a few months the journalists give up.
This has been done over and over.
Edited by issoisso on 20-04-2013 19:08
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| kumazan |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:14
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Team Leader
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issoisso wrote:
kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
A. That's not what you argued. You argued it should be changed because it ends in a sprint. There are no others that end with such a sprint
I argued that it should be changed because it's boring and predictable, not because it ends in a sprint.
No you didn't:
kumazan wrote:
I think there are enough races/stages finishing in a bunch sprint already.
Yes, I did:
kumazan wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Apparently the 2014 Fleche Wallone will start in Bastogne
Interesting...
It's not the start what they should change to make that race interesting.
issoisso wrote:
kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
B. So you don't like it that part of the race is the same and part is different so you want to change it to make it all the same?
a) Part is the same and part is different? More like it's 99% the same.
b) To make it all the same? The same from what?
Same as most other races. This race is different. That's a good thing.
Yours is the kind of thinking that killed Paris-Tours's importance by taking away the parts of the route that made it unique
What other races? Last time I checked, there were lots of races in the calendar different to each other. And this race is predictable, and that's a bad thing.
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:21
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2761
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is it true david harmon has left eurosport?god hope they dont give that idiot kirby the hot seat. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:27
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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How exactly is saying they should change the finish and there "there are enough stages finishing in a bunch sprint" not caused by not liking it ending in a bunch sprint?
And saying this race is predictable is only valid if you're being ludicrously vague. Predictable in that it'll be decided on the final climb? That's the only way it can be predictable. I challenge you to predict the winner.
By that logic, should the Vuelta get rid of the Anglirú? After all, any stage it's in is always decided on the final climb.
Edited by issoisso on 20-04-2013 19:30
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| kumazan |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:32
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Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
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issoisso wrote:
How exactly is saying they should change the finish and there "there are enough stages finishing in a bunch sprint" not caused by not liking it ending in a bunch sprint?
I said they should change it because it's boring. Then you said that according to you this race is unique and for that reason it shouldn't be changed. After that, my reply was that it's not unique because there are many other races that end in a bunch sprint.
So no, I didn't say that it should be changed because it ends in a sprint.
issoisso wrote:
And saying this race is predictable is only valid if you're being ludicrously vague. Predictable in that it'll be decided on the final climb? That's like saying roubaix is predictable because it's decided on the cobbles.
It's predictable because you know that nothing important will happen before the last kilometer, barring mechanical or crash.
issoisso wrote:
By that logic, should the Vuelta get rid of the Anglirú? After all, any stage it's in is always decided on the final climb.
The Angliru is pver 12km long, and it takes over 40 minutes to the riders to get to the top, so at least the interesting part is significantly longer. And the Vuelta is a three weeks race, it can afford having a few not mind blowing stages, otherwise flat stages would be gone first.
And, anyway, the stages to Angliru aren't my favourite either. Too bad Angliru is not a mountain pass, now that'd be awesome. Not that Unipublic would use it as such though.
Edited by kumazan on 20-04-2013 19:37
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:36
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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kumazan wrote:
It's predictable because you know that nothing important will happen before the last kilometer, barring mechanical or crash.
Doesn't that describe pretty much every stage of every race?
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:36
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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issoisso wrote:
By that logic, should the Vuelta get rid of the Anglirú? After all, any stage it's in is always decided on the final climb.
No, cycling should get rid of the Vuelta, because it's a Grand Tour that's become a Spanish walls climbing contest, with always shorter stages, and typically only one mountain per stage, where the stage finishes, and which has insane percentages. Strange idea of cycling, the sooner we'll get rid of it, the better. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:38
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Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
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TheManxMissile wrote:
kumazan wrote:
It's predictable because you know that nothing important will happen before the last kilometer, barring mechanical or crash.
Doesn't that describe pretty much every stage of every race?
Of course no.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:38
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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TheManxMissile wrote:
kumazan wrote:
It's predictable because you know that nothing important will happen before the last kilometer, barring mechanical or crash.
Doesn't that describe pretty much every stage of every race?
I think I saw a stage or a race, once or twice, when the whole race didn't unfold in the last km, a couple of interesting things had happened before.
Maybe I'm confusing with something else, not sure. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-04-2013 19:40
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Honestly, to me, you guys seem like old dinossaurs who can't appreciate anything
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
