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News in September
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 21-09-2012 17:28
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jph27 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Mountain TT for 2014 was a certainty, but now the Worlds may not happen there.
And of course with McQuaid orgasming over anglophones he's pushing hard to get it changed to yorkshire.
I'm not complaining, World Championships in my backyard? Yes please. 
I'd rather they didn't. I'll have started my Erasmus in France a couple of weeks before  |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 21-09-2012 17:58
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Tour de France Champion
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2013 World Tour calendar: Every race after the Tour de France was moved to a week later, except for the Tour of Poland and San Sebastian that now both start on July 27th just after the Tour ends......uhhh....why?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| kumazan |
Posted on 21-09-2012 18:10
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Because it has always been that way?
Since they moved Poland to summer I mean.
Edited by kumazan on 21-09-2012 18:12
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 21-09-2012 18:15
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kumazan wrote:
Deadpool wrote:
kumazan wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Deadpool wrote:
Depends on how the race plays out. If a powerhouse teams settles on the front and guns it, they'll be a hell of a selection. If it's cat and mouse, I agree, we'll see a good sized group, and Sagan or a like will win.
I dont see a team that will be willing and able to do that
Spain are always to selfish. Italy arent good enough. Sagan is alone. France isnt quite good enough. Belgium may be able to, but it all depends on day form for the supporting riders.
I dont see it being that good... But i hope i'm wrong
Seriously, look closer at the route. It's the hardest Worlds route since god knows when. Maybe since Duitama.
How, a 5km long climb at a mid percentage, and a short bump with a max ramp of only 12%?
It probably is one of the hardest in a while, but that isn't saying much, and what appears to be the consistency of that longer climber, combined with the shortness of the real kicker, makes me think it'll be difficult for anyone to get away late.
Fiesole is over 4km @6%, but it gets harder at the end, the last 2km are around 8%. Both smaller bumps have steep slopes as well. Repeat that 10 times in a 280km route and it's a killer.
As anyone who seriously rides a bike will tell you, average gradient is only the beginning of what makes a climb difficult. It's the reason why here in the US, the Appalachian and Green Mountains (the latter where I live) are considered more difficult than the Rockies, which are longer and steeper. An inconsistent climb will be more difficult than a consistent one, even if the latter is stepper or longer - you just can't get into a groove.
Looking at that profile, the Fiesole seems pretty consistent, and a consistent 4% gradient for 2km followed by 8% for another 2km, is not enough to cause the pro's issues. If it was inconsistent, like the Ardennes, it would be a different story, but that profile seems decently detailed, and it looks like a pretty even drag to me. Will it dislodge the Hutarovich's and Kirsipuu's of the world? Sure, will it dislodge the likes of Sagan, Haussler, or Matty Goss? Probably not, if they're on good form. And that second climb is so short that not even 12% is steep enough to cause trouble. It would need to be 14+ at that length to cause real separation.
It's what I meant by driving it vs. cat-and-mouse. If the pace is high all race, the climbs will take their toll because of distance and repetition, otherwise, I'd expect a group of 25-40 to cross the Fiesole on the last ascent, and although the shorter climb may be just enough of a launching pad, if any of the fast finishers in the group have teammates left, they'll likely be brought back.
It could be very entertaining, but I don't think the course guarantees it. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 07-12-2025 11:56
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| kumazan |
Posted on 21-09-2012 18:24
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You're incredibly underrating the difficulty of that course. Seriously, guys like Haussler and Goss would be well gone way before the last lap, and I think it's too much for Sagan (considering his 2012 form).
I don't want to be offensive, but are you blind? Not even in the easy Geelong route there was a 25-40 men group in the final sprint. This is 100 times harder. This is harder than Mendrisio, and that was friggin carnage!
Edited by kumazan on 21-09-2012 18:25
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 21-09-2012 18:35
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kumazan wrote:
You're incredibly underrating the difficulty of that course. Seriously, guys like Haussler and Goss would be well gone way before the last lap, and I think it's too much for Sagan (considering his 2012 form).
I don't want to be offensive, but are you blind? Not even in the easy Geelong route there was a 25-40 men group in the final sprint. This is 100 times harder. This is harder than Mendrisio, and that was friggin carnage!
It was the inherent easiness of the Geelong route that made that race blow up towards the end. Everyone knew they had to go sometime, 'cause otherwise it was going to be all sprinters all day. There was no hope of a late attack, and so the constant attack after attack and the chases that occurred because of it wore the field down.
And Mendrisio is a great example of the latter, with the field pushing the pace. The break got away, the peloton didn't care, a second, stronger break tried to bridge, the peloton didn't care, a third, even bigger and stronger group tried to bridge, and the pack went 'oh, shit' and put the fucking hammer down for 100k. If that were to happen again, the race would be even more insane than Mendrisio. And I'm not sure it's more difficult than Mendrisio, that had some weirdly proportioned climbs, and was murdering riders even before the pace got really ramped up.
All I'm saying is the route isn't as difficult on paper as it looks, and isn't a guarantee of fireworks. If things stay controlled throughout the race, and pace stays consistent, I definitely think the decently climbing sprinter types, Sagan, Freire (although he'll be gone), Goss, Haussler, etc., will be in a position to do something.
If you ran the race 100 times, I'd say probably 20% of the time you'd see a solid sized group into the finish, and 80% something in that 1-7 range. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 21-09-2012 18:47
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*sigh*
No way in hell a group that big can get together to the finish in that course. Not 20%, not 10%, not 5%. It'd take a miracle, the least competitive Worlds race since... always. Of the guys you mention, only Sagan has a decent shot. This course is as hard as LBL ffs.
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 21-09-2012 18:49
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No way in hell it's as difficult as LBL.
But we're apparently not going to convince each other, so it's really not worth going on... |
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 21-09-2012 19:23
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Hey, I'm making a fantasy shirt for Cannondale Pro Cycling 2013, and I was wondering what sponsors (apart from Cannondale) prolonged their contracts or joined.
Hope someone knows it!
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 21-09-2012 21:42
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Deadpool wrote:
No way in hell it's as difficult as LBL.
But we're apparently not going to convince each other, so it's really not worth going on...
It's harder than LBL.
LBL has 24km of climbs total. This route has over 40km on just the main climb alone, getting over 60km of climbing in total. This, plus the fact it's 20km longer.
This course will be too tough for Gilbert.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 21-09-2012 21:45
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I'm gonna bet on a climber next year. I think next year a pure climber can actually show what they can do in Worlds. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 21-09-2012 21:55
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mb2612 wrote:
It's harder than LBL.
LBL has 24km of climbs total. This route has over 40km on just the main climb alone, getting over 60km of climbing in total. This, plus the fact it's 20km longer.
This course will be too tough for Gilbert.
Then expect it to be the pure climbers...
But if is really that tough they wont attack until the last ascent. But the wheelsuckers like Purito etc. will just cling on. And it will be a group sprint after the descent between 10 or so riders.
It will not be exciting, there are no exciting climbers anymore (except Contadope who will be neutralised)
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-09-2012 00:39
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Apparently, Cyclingnews considers that telling someone their idea is stupid is not allowed, but "social engineering" private personal information and selling it to Lance and his cohorts is just fine
https://forum.cycl...hp?t=18603
Pathetic. Completely pathetic. I know I won't be going back to that damn place.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 22-09-2012 00:58
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Id guess Cyclingnews is probably the biggest forum for general cycling stuff, but it is a bit of a crazy place. Having quickly read up on the situation you refer to, the stance of the CN admins/mods is somewhat baffling.
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 22-09-2012 01:34
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mb2612 wrote:
Deadpool wrote:
No way in hell it's as difficult as LBL.
But we're apparently not going to convince each other, so it's really not worth going on...
It's harder than LBL.
LBL has 24km of climbs total. This route has over 40km on just the main climb alone, getting over 60km of climbing in total. This, plus the fact it's 20km longer.
This course will be too tough for Gilbert.
If you only garner one thing from my back and forth with Kumazan, it is that the route does not make the race. No, it will not be anywhere near as hard as LBL, for two major reasons. The field at LBL is much stronger, most of the major favorites have built their season around it, and the course is well known enough that riders and teams don't have to feel it out at all. They can undertake whatever actions they do with abandon, because they aren't worried about major surprises when the course isn't as expected, or doesn't play in the expected way at key moments. The worlds teams are also thrown together, and aren't well organized, and often don't have very clearly defined roles. All this conspires to the race being a little less than full throttle, as teams don't want to get caught out.
I put the Fiesole climb into gmap-pedometer, and it is pretty damn consistent. It's too long for real fireworks, and too short for the 4-8% gradient to do the trick. Seriously, it's no more difficult than a local climb here that I can ride up at 75% of my flats pace when I'm so inclined.
Mark my words: Unless somebody goes to the front and repeatedly murders it up that climb, it won't provide much of a selection at all. Everyone will be hyping it for weeks and weeks, and the course won't do the job.
issoisso wrote:
Apparently, Cyclingnews considers that telling someone their idea is stupid is not allowed, but "social engineering" private personal information and selling it to Lance and his cohorts is just fine
https://forum.cycl...hp?t=18603
Pathetic. Completely pathetic. I know I won't be going back to that damn place.
1) That's almost certainly not 100% of the story.
2) The guy whose privacy was at stake himself asked for the story not to get out, and it was his fault that the occurrence happened to begin with.
My guess is that the CN people got stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it's impossible to tell from that whether they made the right decision, as there isn't enough information. Even if they did, I can't totally blame them. If they were asked by this 'RR' to keep things under wraps, well then, what are they supposed to do?
Edited by Deadpool on 22-09-2012 01:37
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| issoisso |
Posted on 22-09-2012 05:33
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Tour de France Champion
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Deadpool wrote:
1) That's almost certainly not 100% of the story.
It never is. But the fact is that ever since JP "came clean", he's been demonstrably lying to the public on several occasions. For example, when he "came clean" and told the public about his doping and how he was doing his part to help clean up cycling, it turned out he was still dealing EPO and would continue doing so for months
Deadpool wrote:
2) The guy whose privacy was at stake himself asked for the story not to get out, and it was his fault that the occurrence happened to begin with.
You didn't read the whole story, did you? it's not just RR. It's tens of people. Basically anyone who regularly posted about Armstrong's doping, JP was badgering to get personal information.
Deadpool wrote:
My guess is that the CN people got stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it's impossible to tell from that whether they made the right decision, as there isn't enough information. Even if they did, I can't totally blame them. If they were asked by this 'RR' to keep things under wraps, well then, what are they supposed to do?
They were asked by RR to not make it public why JP was being banned. They refused to even consider banning JP for using their forum to steal and sell personal information to a well known blackmailer.
I don't see how there isn't enough information.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 22-09-2012 09:27
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It's not news (yet), but Roubaix team might fold, because they miss 300 k€. |
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| Farmer Sam |
Posted on 24-09-2012 09:26
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Giro 2013 promo, I'm excited already!
https://www.youtub...e=youtu.be |
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| Farmer Sam |
Posted on 24-09-2012 16:45
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Ventoux looks like its going to be in the 100th edition of the tour, as well as Alpe d'Huez being climbed TWICE!
https://www.ledaup...r-la-carte |
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| Eden95 |
Posted on 24-09-2012 17:34
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Well, you're only 100 once.
Indosat - ANZ HQ
"This Schleck sandwich is going to cause serious indigestion for Evans" - Phil Liggett |
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