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Alberto Contador Positive
kumazan
https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/1...dor_147540

SPAIN, FUCK YEAH!!
 
Elton
WADA tested the meat from the butchery but it was clean or negative.
 
CrueTrue
To be more clear, WADA made a report, including a long list of arguments explaining why Contador's explanation can't be true.

Two of the points are the following:
- As Elton mentioned, they've tested meat from the butcher and found nothing. They've also tested the cows from where the butcher get his meats, and they were also negative.

- EU made a report in 2008 which showed that none of the 22.518 tested cows had clenbuterol.

Contador has complained, saying that you can't conclude anything based on 22.518 cows when there are 27 million of them in EU.

My counter-argument? In statistical method, EU's report is a significant sample Wink
Edited by CrueTrue on 17-11-2010 17:02
 
http://www.pcmdaily.com
Elton
Thats true but Wada should investigate the source of the contamination, which they did. Spain doesn't have 27M cows so it would be pointless to test all of them. The butcher probably buys their cows from Spain.

At first I thought it could be reasonable that he got it through the meat (even if it was highly suspicious) but now it seems he needs a better explanation.
 
Ste117
I knew all this was a cover by Contador, not lying might have left him with some respect but lying to try and get away with no respect at all, Contador is doomed, hopefully 2 year ban for arguements sake. He will do anything to win, he doesn't care about cycling and it's fans, he just wants all the publicity of winning. SELFISH SPANISH TOERAG.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica

i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh592/caspervdluijt/gfx/Valverde.png
 
SportingNonsense
Ste117 wrote:
I knew all this was a cover by Contador, not lying might have left him with some respect but lying to try and get away with no respect at all, Contador is doomed, hopefully 2 year ban for arguements sake. He will do anything to win, he doesn't care about cycling and it's fans, he just wants all the publicity of winning. SELFISH SPANISH TOERAG.


Say what?

Ste117 wrote:
Im not a big fan of Contador and never have been, but a 2 year ban for eating contaminated meat will be harsh, unless the UCI can provide evidence it was planned, I can't see anything wrong with it, we all knew he was going to win the TDF anyway, and I am not saying it makes it all right because it doesn't. So in other words I kind of believe Contador.

farm8.staticflickr.com/7458/9357923136_f1e68270f3_n.jpg
 
Ste117
I wanted to believe Contador but as the story started to unravel, it was kind of easy to see he was lying, why do they do it, they know they will get caught, it's ridiculous now, what does cycling have to do to make the professional's realise if you dope you will be caught.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica

i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh592/caspervdluijt/gfx/Valverde.png
 
wackojackohighcliffe
so knew was the wrong word eh?
 
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Tuco the Ugly
Ste117 wrote:
it's ridiculous now, what does cycling have to do to make the professional's realise if you dope you will be caught.


I don't remember the exact quote, but I remember somewhat recently, Bernhard Kohl said he was tested 200 times in his career. 100 times he had dope in his blood.

He was caught once.
 
Ste117
yeh lol and i did post that either the same day he was suspended or a day after can't remember, no one knew the whole story then.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica

i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh592/caspervdluijt/gfx/Valverde.png
 
ruben
it's like playing counter strike source

you know it's full of bots, half of them are bots, but only 1% gets caught and only when they make a mistake

Sad
 
CrueTrue
Signature quote material.
 
http://www.pcmdaily.com
Deadpool
Tuco the Ugly wrote:
Ste117 wrote:
it's ridiculous now, what does cycling have to do to make the professional's realise if you dope you will be caught.


I don't remember the exact quote, but I remember somewhat recently, Bernhard Kohl said he was tested 200 times in his career. 100 times he had dope in his blood.

He was caught once.


Here's the thing. I have no doubt that doping helps. The only thing I wonder is for the guys who get past tests, how little do they have to have in their body to do so, and, if that is the case, how much does that help? I mean, Contador for instance with literally a couple of molecules of clenbuterol in his urine, obviously if he took it he put a lot more in, but for any drug to dissipate that quickly, it seems like you wouldn't be able to put any amount in that would make that huge of a difference.

I'm sure now someone like isso or Aquarius will show up with numbers, but that aspect of it is the only thing that has ever made me stop and think about whether doping is really as serious of a problem as it is made out to be, i.e., that if you dope to the point that it really helps you are going to get caught, and most guys don't get that much benefit.

P.S. - Not sure if the 50 trillionths of a gram is using an english trillionth or other (don't know the name) trillionth, but he had either 1.086x10(11) or 108625.85 molecules of clenbuterol in his urine (per milliliter).
Edited by Deadpool on 19-11-2010 00:22
 
Aquarius
I don't have accurate figures, but if you want to check EPO effects, just look at how much the power measurements increased between 1988-89 and 1992-93 in the Tour de France. Training didn't evolve that much, nor bikes or anything. It's like 10% wattage more. The make it more obvious : the difference between the grupetto and the leaders is 10 to 20 % usually (on the last mountain), imagine a guy with an advantage of 10 % on regular leaders. HUGE.

The principle of dope use is that they have a short period of detection, but long time effects. Clenbuterol helps you growing muscles. You can be caught during a few days after you took it, but you'll keep the extra muscles on the long term. Same goes for EPO's micro dosing. Take loads of EPO during Winter time. Big probability to get caught if you're using old EPO and are controlled, but small probability to be controlled. Then only micro-dosing during the season, no risk to be caught, huge effects.

Do you get the idea ?
 
CrueTrue
Deadpool wrote:
Tuco the Ugly wrote:
Ste117 wrote:
it's ridiculous now, what does cycling have to do to make the professional's realise if you dope you will be caught.


I don't remember the exact quote, but I remember somewhat recently, Bernhard Kohl said he was tested 200 times in his career. 100 times he had dope in his blood.

He was caught once.


I mean, Contador for instance with literally a couple of molecules of clenbuterol in his urine, obviously if he took it he put a lot more in, but for any drug to dissipate that quickly, it seems like you wouldn't be able to put any amount in that would make that huge of a difference.


What do you mean by "that quickly"? Do you know when he took the drug, and when he was tested again?

You also have to keep in mind that there are plenty of drugs that you can't test positive for - even entire methods such as autologous blood transfusions.

So while you're puzzled about the short-term gain of doping, I'm more concerned about the long-term gain. Riders such as Basso are still benefiting from the doping they took back when they were caught - that worries me.
 
http://www.pcmdaily.com
Montolivo
CrueTrue wrote:
Deadpool wrote:
Tuco the Ugly wrote:
Ste117 wrote:
it's ridiculous now, what does cycling have to do to make the professional's realise if you dope you will be caught.


I don't remember the exact quote, but I remember somewhat recently, Bernhard Kohl said he was tested 200 times in his career. 100 times he had dope in his blood.

He was caught once.


I mean, Contador for instance with literally a couple of molecules of clenbuterol in his urine, obviously if he took it he put a lot more in, but for any drug to dissipate that quickly, it seems like you wouldn't be able to put any amount in that would make that huge of a difference.


What do you mean by "that quickly"? Do you know when he took the drug, and when he was tested again?

You also have to keep in mind that there are plenty of drugs that you can't test positive for - even entire methods such as autologous blood transfusions.

So while you're puzzled about the short-term gain of doping, I'm more concerned about the long-term gain. Riders such as Basso are still benefiting from the doping they took back when they were caught - that worries me.

Where have you read that? He is clean and you say he is still gaining something of the doping for 4-5 years ago?
 
issoisso
Montolivo wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
Deadpool wrote:
Tuco the Ugly wrote:
Ste117 wrote:
it's ridiculous now, what does cycling have to do to make the professional's realise if you dope you will be caught.


I don't remember the exact quote, but I remember somewhat recently, Bernhard Kohl said he was tested 200 times in his career. 100 times he had dope in his blood.

He was caught once.


I mean, Contador for instance with literally a couple of molecules of clenbuterol in his urine, obviously if he took it he put a lot more in, but for any drug to dissipate that quickly, it seems like you wouldn't be able to put any amount in that would make that huge of a difference.


What do you mean by "that quickly"? Do you know when he took the drug, and when he was tested again?

You also have to keep in mind that there are plenty of drugs that you can't test positive for - even entire methods such as autologous blood transfusions.

So while you're puzzled about the short-term gain of doping, I'm more concerned about the long-term gain. Riders such as Basso are still benefiting from the doping they took back when they were caught - that worries me.

Where have you read that? He is clean and you say he is still gaining something of the doping for 4-5 years ago?


There's two reasons Smile

1. The doping allowed him to train much harder. Which meant he improved a lot more than he would have if he hadn't doped;

2. A lot of it, like the HgH use, has permanent consequences. It literally stays with you for life.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified

i.imgur.com/YWVAnoO.jpg

"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
 
CrueTrue
It's well known that some products have long-term (positive) effects. WADA recently used the argument in favour of 4 year suspensions.

WADA vice president and IOC anti-doping official Arne Ljungqvist said that apart from the deterrent effect, a four year ban also has a sound scientific argument. He said that substances such as anabolic steroids can stay in the system longer than two years, thus meaning that some of those who were handed two a 24 month ban still benefited from the effects.

“It was that scientific evidence that made the legal people say, 'Yes, there are good reasons for extending the ban from two years to four years in anabolic steroid cases,” he explained.


https://www.velonation.com/News/ID/633...-bans.aspx
 
http://www.pcmdaily.com
rjc_43
issoisso wrote:
2. A lot of it, like the HgH use, has permanent consequences. It literally stays with you for life.


It also improves your eyesight.

So if I ever start losing my sight, well, we all know what I'll be taking...
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]imageprocessor.websimages.com/width/420/www.cleavercycling.co.uk/CleaverCyclingWebHeader.png[/url]
 
http://cleavercycling.co.uk
issoisso
Rich mate I think you're already on HgH considering how blocky you look.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified

i.imgur.com/YWVAnoO.jpg

"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
 
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