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News in February
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:38
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Classics Specialist
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issoisso wrote:
Joaquim Agostinho became one of the best climbers of all time after starting cycling at the age of 26. Heck, Ludo Dierckxsens started cycling at 28 and was a pro by 30 years of age.
but what did they do before cycling? for every rider you can name with 'natural ability', i could name 500 who got there through working hard.
anyway, were getting off the point here. my point was simply it is possible for anyone to become a top pro if they are given the right advice and the time to train. which i still believe is right. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:40
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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ringo182 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Joaquim Agostinho became one of the best climbers of all time after starting cycling at the age of 26. Heck, Ludo Dierckxsens started cycling at 28 and was a pro by 30 years of age.
but what did they do before cycling?
Dierckxens I have no idea. Agostinho spent years fighting a war in the forests of Africa.
ringo182 wrote:
for every rider you can name with 'natural ability', i could name 500 who got there through working hard.
.....I just named 2 of the most die-hard never-say-die never-give-up riders in history....
ringo182 wrote:
anyway, were getting off the point here. my point was simply it is possible for anyone to become a top pro if they are given the right advice and the time to train. which i still believe is right.
I'm flabbergasted (that's the right word indeed) that anyone can think that.
Edited by issoisso on 26-02-2009 14:44
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:45
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4790
Joined: 06-12-2006
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It's a foolish argument.
How many guys are seriously in contention to win P-R, Flanders and the Giro every year?
Just a handful.
But everyone of those riders starting in those races gets to ride on their bike/trainers just about every day of the year and also have devoted a large part of their lives to the road. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:52
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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but everyone has to start somewhere. at some point all pro's are just 'normal' people as you call us. what was the difference between cancellara and his classmates at school? nothing. who's to say that i might not be a naturally gifted cyclist if i had the time to train as much as the pro's? you can be as naturally gifted as you want, without the training your nothing.
you seem to be implying that a rider like LeMond, because he was 'naturally gifted' he could win the tour by barely training. Thats rubbish (I know thats not what you said, but it's what you are implying by using the term 'naturally gifted). you need to train hard to bring out the natural ability and only the pro's have the time to do that.
and agostinho was in the army, his job was to deliver messeges from various positions by bycycle. so really he was training everyday
i'm off for an hour on my turbo, i look forward to getting back to this debate when i return. |
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Posted on 24-11-2024 08:54
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:56
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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fenian_1234 wrote:
It's a foolish argument.
How many guys are seriously in contention to win P-R, Flanders and the Giro every year?
Just a handful.
But everyone of those riders starting in those races gets to ride on their bike/trainers just about every day of the year and also have devoted a large part of their lives to the road.
but they're hired as domestiques and paid to do that job. if they wanted to any-one of them could become a tour contender. look at van der velde, he's been a domestique all his life and suddenly decided that he wants more. look at landis, ok he cheated but he was a domestique who decided he wanted to try to win the tour.
domestiques are paid to ride for their leaders. being the leader takes alot of work so some riders are happy to just be a domestique and have an easier life. look at a rider like wegelius. he's a domestique but a good climber and a decent tter. what would stop him from contending in the GC if he really wanted to. but he's paid to be a domestique so thats what he does. |
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| schleck93 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 15:00
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3715
Joined: 04-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ringo182 wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:
It's a foolish argument.
How many guys are seriously in contention to win P-R, Flanders and the Giro every year?
Just a handful.
But everyone of those riders starting in those races gets to ride on their bike/trainers just about every day of the year and also have devoted a large part of their lives to the road.
but they're hired as domestiques and paid to do that job. if they wanted to any-one of them could become a tour contender. look at van der velde, he's been a domestique all his life and suddenly decided that he wants more. look at landis, ok he cheated but he was a domestique who decided he wanted to try to win the tour.
domestiques are paid to ride for their leaders. being the leader takes alot of work so some riders are happy to just be a domestique and have an easier life. look at a rider like wegelius. he's a domestique but a good climber and a decent tter. what would stop him from contending in the GC if he really wanted to. but he's paid to be a domestique so thats what he does.
Wgelius is a domenestique because he ain't good enough to become a GT contender. Thats why they are domenestiques, Vandevelde was a domenestique because he wasn't better than Sastre, Landis was because Lance was better. Thats why they ride for their leaders because they don't have the skills to be leaders them self.
BenBarnes wrote:
Thor wears a live rattlesnake as a condom.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-02-2009 15:07
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ringo182 wrote:
but everyone has to start somewhere. at some point all pro's are just 'normal' people as you call us. what was the difference between cancellara and his classmates at school? nothing.
Are you serious?
ringo182 wrote:
who's to say that i might not be a naturally gifted cyclist if i had the time to train as much as the pro's?
.........that's like saying "who's to say I might not be intelligent if I had the time to study". You can study all you want, it'll increase your knowledge, but it won't make you more intelligent.
ringo182 wrote:
you can be as naturally gifted as you want, without the training your nothing.
Again, nobody said anything like that.
ringo182 wrote:
you seem to be implying that a rider like LeMond, because he was 'naturally gifted' he could win the tour by barely training.
Thats rubbish (I know thats not what you said, but it's what you are implying by using the term 'naturally gifted). you need to train hard to bring out the natural ability and only the pro's have the time to do that.
........so you tried your damn hardest to read something into my posts that everyone can plainly see wasn't there, and then criticize me for it?
People like you make me lose faith in humanity 
I give up on this. And I'm sorry for you. I'm literally very sorry for you.
Jesus christ.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 15:47
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4790
Joined: 06-12-2006
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ringo182 wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:
It's a foolish argument.
How many guys are seriously in contention to win P-R, Flanders and the Giro every year?
Just a handful.
But everyone of those riders starting in those races gets to ride on their bike/trainers just about every day of the year and also have devoted a large part of their lives to the road.
but they're hired as domestiques and paid to do that job. if they wanted to any-one of them could become a tour contender.
Where's the shaking my head smiley?
ringo182 wrote:look at van der velde, he's been a domestique all his life and suddenly decided that he wants more. look at landis, ok he cheated but he was a domestique who decided he wanted to try to win the tour.
So, what are you saying? They woke up one morning and decided to start training hard?
ringo182 wrote:domestiques are paid to ride for their leaders. being the leader takes alot of work so some riders are happy to just be a domestique and have an easier life. look at a rider like wegelius. he's a domestique but a good climber and a decent tter. what would stop him from contending in the GC if he really wanted to. but he's paid to be a domestique so thats what he does.
Now, we definitely need a shaking the head smiley!!! |
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| t-baum |
Posted on 26-02-2009 15:49
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2153
Joined: 07-09-2007
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Who the hell is van der velde?
Macquet wrote:
"We all know that wasn't the real footage of the Worlds anyway. That was just the staged footage to perpetuate the coverup that it was actually Vinokourov that won the race." |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-02-2009 15:54
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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t-baum wrote:
Who the hell is van der velde?
https://www.cyclingwebsite.net/coureur...eurid=7472
Edited by issoisso on 26-02-2009 15:55
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| t-baum |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:02
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2153
Joined: 07-09-2007
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Is he one of rubens dutch talents?
Macquet wrote:
"We all know that wasn't the real footage of the Worlds anyway. That was just the staged footage to perpetuate the coverup that it was actually Vinokourov that won the race."
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:02
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Team Manager
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t-baum wrote:
Is he one of rubens dutch talents?
He rides for Garmin |
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| Smitho |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:13
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 270
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Lets be honest if they have been training a young rider on the track for the last few years secretly and looks good it could well be them look at how good cavendish is and he is only 22/23  also it is all to do with training not natural talent becasue the more you train the more you body becomes used to that type of exercise therefore if you do sprint traingin you will have more fast twitch fibres making you better at sprinting!!
Therefore they could well have a 18year old who they have been training, riding 200-300kms a week especially if he is getting paid to do it. It all about training if i trained i bet i would become half decent at cycling. It all about how long someone has training for or has been doing a similar physical activity for. e.g. you messaging example. Same characterisitcs as a cycling race. You are obviously thick as you cant be naturally talented yes some people are born with certain amount of fast nad slow twitch fibres but you can alter it through training. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:18
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Smitho wrote:
Lets be honest if they have been training a young rider on the track for the last few years secretly and looks good it could well be them look at how good cavendish is and he is only 22/23 also it is all to do with training not natural talent becasue the more you train the more you body becomes used to that type of exercise therefore if you do sprint traingin you will have more fast twitch fibres making you better at sprinting!!
Therefore they could well have a 18year old who they have been training, riding 200-300kms a week especially if he is getting paid to do it. It all about training if i trained i bet i would become half decent at cycling. It all about how long someone has training for or has been doing a similar physical activity for. e.g. you messaging example. Same characterisitcs as a cycling race. You are obviously thick as you cant be naturally talented yes some people are born with certain amount of fast nad slow twitch fibres but you can alter it through training.
300kms a week would be vacation rhythm for a professional.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Xavier |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:18
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 933
Joined: 21-09-2007
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Smitho wrote:
Lets be honest if they have been training a young rider on the track for the last few years secretly and looks good it could well be them look at how good cavendish is and he is only 22/23 also it is all to do with training not natural talent becasue the more you train the more you body becomes used to that type of exercise therefore if you do sprint traingin you will have more fast twitch fibres making you better at sprinting!!
Therefore they could well have a 18year old who they have been training, riding 200-300kms a week especially if he is getting paid to do it. It all about training if i trained i bet i would become half decent at cycling. It all about how long someone has training for or has been doing a similar physical activity for. e.g. you messaging example. Same characterisitcs as a cycling race. You are obviously thick as you cant be naturally talented yes some people are born with certain amount of fast nad slow twitch fibres but you can alter it through training.
you should try to win the tour then  |
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| Smitho |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:19
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 270
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1 he is 18 thereofre you would not want to burn him out you CAMEL |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:19
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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you know who i mean vande velde
why do you need your shaking head smiley fenian? i'm not saying that they just woke up and decided to start training harder. they wanted more then just being domestiques.
are you saying that LA trained as much as a normal domestique in prep for his TdF rides? NO!!! He trained twice as hard. He trained all year round with one single goal. It consumed his whole life for 7 years. how many other cyclists are prepared to put that kind of effort and hours in? none. thats why he won it 7 years in a row, he's not super human. (que a load of drug related comments )
most domestiques have the ability to be top riders, they're just happy enough getting paid to do what they love without it taking over their whole life.
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| Xavier |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:24
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Breakaway Specialist
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so by your logic if tom boonen trains more than lance armstrong hes gonna win the tour? lol |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:26
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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issoisso wrote:
........so you tried your damn hardest to read something into my posts that everyone can plainly see wasn't there, and then criticize me for it?
People like you make me lose faith in humanity
I give up on this. And I'm sorry for you. I'm literally very sorry for you.
Jesus christ.
you feel sorry for me because i disagree with what you think. that is just arrogant and ignorant at the same time. i've done nothing but debate my side of the arguement and now you are starting to get personal because you have no answers.
don't feel sorry for me, i'm perfectly happy not believing everything i'm told and believing that if i work hard i can achieve things doing the sport i love. i don't know how seriously you ride but i race and have seen first hand the improvements that training only part time can achieve and so obviously i am wondering how far i could take it if i was able to do it full time.
i made a simple comment and then backed it up with numerous sources and arguments and all you can do is call me names.
i don't feel sorry for you, i pitty you. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 16:28
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Xavier wrote:
so by your logic if tom boonen trains more than lance armstrong hes gonna win the tour? lol
why not? he obviously has the strength in his legs to go over mountains. If he was to concentrate on training in mountains why couldn't he become a world class climber? he would loose his sprinting ability but you don't need that to win the tour. |
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