Avin Wargunnson wrote:
It is hard to tell, if Sagan followed Cance he would burn himself probably in a minute,as this race is maybe too extreme in lenght for his young age. I think he relied on the other teams to do the work (Katusha was doing it, but not fast enough) or waiting for Nibali from winniÃng with downhill attack (but as soon as Cance joined them it was clear Nibali has not a chance).
Why would he burn himself by following Cancellara? He'd be spending pretty much the same as in the hypothetical case the bunch had actually pulled Cancellara back. He even created a gap during the descent (I think it was Sagan, whenever I have the chance to rewatch the race I'll have a look at it) and wasn't far from bridging the gap with the front trio, then suddenly stopped. If he was told to stop from the team car, then the DS is stupid because that could have costed them a MSR win, and he's stupid for following such stupid instructions.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
What i think is that Nibali didnt have to attack and wait for the sprint but italian win would be more for Liquigas so he did it
I don't think it's the idea of an Italian win which make them attack with Nibbles. I'm guessing the idea is, Nibali attacks in the Poggio (not that there's any other place where Nibali can attack and have a chance to actually open a gap), then if he goes solo, nice, and, if he doesn't, other teams will chase, and we'll be able to just follow wheels.
Problem is, once Cancellara is in the break, that just wasn't going to work, so having Oss in the bunch doing nothing, just so he could finish 9th was moronic.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Overall this is still great result for the team and 22years old at the longest classic, if Sagan will not win in the future i will eat my hat
Beware with your words. Hats aren't tasty.
litllemagnum wrote:
If Sagan would have went with Cancellara, they would have been caught and someone else would win in the sprint and then Liquigas wouldn't even have a 3rd place
Why would them be caught if Sagan joined the trio?
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
It is hard to tell, if Sagan followed Cance he would burn himself probably in a minute,as this race is maybe too extreme in lenght for his young age. I think he relied on the other teams to do the work (Katusha was doing it, but not fast enough) or waiting for Nibali from winniÃng with downhill attack (but as soon as Cance joined them it was clear Nibali has not a chance).
Why would he burn himself by following Cancellara? He'd be spending pretty much the same as in the hypothetical case the bunch had actually pulled Cancellara back. He even created a gap during the descent (I think it was Sagan, whenever I have the chance to rewatch the race I'll have a look at it) and wasn't far from bridging the gap with the front trio, then suddenly stopped. If he was told to stop from the team car, then the DS is stupid because that could have costed them a MSR win, and he's stupid for following such stupid instructions.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
What i think is that Nibali didnt have to attack and wait for the sprint but italian win would be more for Liquigas so he did it
I don't think it's the idea of an Italian win which make them attack with Nibbles. I'm guessing the idea is, Nibali attacks in the Poggio (not that there's any other place where Nibali can attack and have a chance to actually open a gap), then if he goes solo, nice, and, if he doesn't, other teams will chase, and we'll be able to just follow wheels.
Problem is, once Cancellara is in the break, that just wasn't going to work, so having Oss in the bunch doing nothing, just so he could finish 9th was moronic.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Overall this is still great result for the team and 22years old at the longest classic, if Sagan will not win in the future i will eat my hat
Beware with your words. Hats aren't tasty.
litllemagnum wrote:
If Sagan would have went with Cancellara, they would have been caught and someone else would win in the sprint and then Liquigas wouldn't even have a 3rd place
Why would them be caught if Sagan joined the trio?
Because I don't think Cancellara would be stupid enough to ride with Sagan in his wheel.
litllemagnum wrote:
Because I don't think Cancellara would be stupid enough to ride with Sagan in his wheel.
Instead he did it with Gerrans
kumazan wrote:
I don't think it's the idea of an Italian win which make them attack with Nibbles. I'm guessing the idea is, Nibali attacks in the Poggio (not that there's any other place where Nibali can attack and have a chance to actually open a gap), then if he goes solo, nice, and, if he doesn't, other teams will chase, and we'll be able to just follow wheels.
Problem is, once Cancellara is in the break, that just wasn't going to work, so having Oss in the bunch doing nothing, just so he could finish 9th was moronic.
I agree with this, their tactics were good as an idea, but they pretty screw it up in reality.
There were only Katusha and Sagan pushing hard, but for Sagan it was too late to react on the fact that Nibbles is hopeless in the leading trio or he was told to stop chasing as you suggested (that would be stupid, but it is probably the case as Oss was only sitting there).
I know i am doing general after the battle but simply leting Nibbles (without his attack when most of the sprinters were gone) and Oss do the chasing of Poggio attacks and launch Sagan to the line would be better imo as they had two powerhouses and best sprinter left in the front group...
litllemagnum wrote:. some quotes .
Because I don't think Cancellara would be stupid enough to ride with Sagan in his wheel.
I am not so sure about that. I guess Cancellara wouldn't have stopped his attack/work but would have tried harder to lose them on the descent.
Edited by Lachi on 20-03-2012 14:23
sam1196 wrote:
Do you really think that Nibali was thinking about Cancellara when he planned his attack? I don't think so, i think he was thinking about going solo dropping like an eagle down the Poggio and loose as less time as possible on the flat.
To be fair you cant attack in a spring classic and dont think about Cancellara, as he is doing the same move every classic and usually someone follow him and win from his slipstream
he surely knew that there was a probability that Cancellara was able to follow, but he don't need to cover up his own ambitions because there's one or two that could spoil your attack.
Yeah, but Nibali should know he is not able to outsprint even the turtle after 5 kms of flat riding
Yeah, but what should he do than? He can't just say byebye an let himself drop to Sagan to close the gap?
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
I agree with this, their tactics were good as an idea, but they pretty screw it up in reality.
There were only Katusha and Sagan pushing hard, but for Sagan it was too late to react on the fact that Nibbles is hopeless in the leading trio or he was told to stop chasing as you suggested (that would be stupid, but it is probably the case as Oss was only sitting there).
I know i am doing general after the battle but simply leting Nibbles (without his attack when most of the sprinters were gone) and Oss do the chasing of Poggio attacks and launch Sagan to the line would be better imo as they had two powerhouses and best sprinter left in the front group...
Yeah, that tactic could have worked. After all, Oss + Nibbles > Florencio + Paolini, but I can't blame Liquigas for playing two cards rather than one.
