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Le Tour 09: Stage 15 - Pontarlier - Verbier (SUI)
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| issoisso |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:35
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As for the Wiggins thing, a lot of people here are being swayed by PCM stats, specifically by stupid stat-makers giving him low 50s for climbing when he should always have been a high 60s climber. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 11:05
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:36
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It isnt just that Wiggins has lost weight.
This is pretty much the first year of his career that he has focused solely on the road and not on the track at all. This has definately made a difference.
He is also now at a team that suits his style (and the fact that he can relate to Vandevelde's experiences last year), rather than a french team or one who uses him as little more than a lead-out man or domestique.
Edited by SportingNonsense on 19-07-2009 18:36
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| Roman |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:37
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1. Contadop
2. Andy
3. Wiggins
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:38
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Tour de France Champion
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YtimK wrote:
about Bradley "Pasamontes-Pantani-Jimenez" Wiggins:
dear its so obvious. oh he lost 8 kilo?
I'm gonna tell that Förster and Kirsipuu to become the next years Tour de France GC Contenders. its just so ridiculous
I just talked with Kirsipuu..done! he is in..but he refuses to lost any weight. |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:40
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Sorry, yes wiggins has done amazingly and it is very impressive but given what kohl and issoisso say I can't believe he is entirely clean.
On the otherhand, how annoyed is team sky that they havn't manaaged to secure him for next season.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| kida |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:44
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Domestique
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Roman wrote:
1. Contadop
2. (C)Andy Schleck
3. Wiggins
Hmm sadly i don't think Wiggins will hold on to 3rd, be cool if he did though and the cleanest rider of the 3. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:46
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Tour de France Champion
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mb2612 wrote:
what kohl and issoisso say
Yes, me and shrek are doppelgangers. And we've both said a lot of relevant things to Wiggins' case.
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:48
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Speedtrash wrote:
just relax guys, this one was just 1st stage from Alps and Ventoux, and I would say the easiest...
so there will be a lot more GC changes in next days, especially on Mt.Ventoux, I think it has never been such a mountain finish so late in the Tour, even after 2nd TT, riders will have like 3300 km in their legs a we might see some real cracks....
Sastre-I think he just wasnt able to follow hell-tempo set by other teams on the beginning but then he climbed very vell, he likes more "steady" climbing on longer climbs (yet to come) where he can attack and almost nobody can follow, and he is the guy for 3rd week, his time is still to come
Contador-if nothing special happens he will win
Peter Velits great ride!!! I hope now he is definitely team leader, not Gerdemnann or Knees
Why is it people are saying Verbier was easy?
Seriously... It wasn't easy, thats a hard climb. Ok, maybe not as long as the ventoux, but the ventoux isn't too much steeper, the ventoux averages at 7.6%, todays averaged at 7.6%
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| ruben |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:52
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Anyway. Where van Hummel's 'dropped buddies' Napolitano, Furland and Fernandez have already given up, he's still there.
Difference in pure mentality. |
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| Il Grillo |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:53
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Length and the height above sea level makes the difference. Still Verbier is easy compared to other climbs. And the profile was rather easy+rolling asphalt which has an impact, some of the cat.3 climbs today wouldnt be a categorized climb at all in the Giro. If you take Contador out, who is at least one level above the rest,the differences were marginal. |
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| E_Hagen |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:54
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Waggo loves Wiggo  |
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| E_Hagen |
Posted on 19-07-2009 18:57
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van Hummel will min at Champs Elysees. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 19-07-2009 19:03
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ruben wrote:
Anyway. Where van Hummel's 'dropped buddies' Napolitano, Furland and Fernandez have already given up, he's still there.
Difference in pure mentality.
Furlan gave up, but the other 2 were simply outside the time limit
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 19-07-2009 19:05
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issoisso wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
what kohl and issoisso say
Yes, me and shrek are doppelgangers. And we've both said a lot of relevant things to Wiggins' case.
i was refering to your comments that about 90% of riders in the peleton dope.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| swsquires |
Posted on 19-07-2009 19:09
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All this talk about the weight Wiggins has lost reminded me of the photo from earlier in the season:
https://www.flickr...434625727/
Many years ago Greg Lemond tried to convince Chris Boardman that he could be a grand tour winner because he was a great time trialist. Boardman lost weight to help his climbing, but partly due to illness and partly due to the start of the EPO era he never managed it. If you have the ability to time trial you should be able to become a great climber. You just need to lose the weight, retaining your power, but improving your power to weight ratio.
Simon
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| E_Hagen |
Posted on 19-07-2009 19:23
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Wow. He looks like Ms.Beckham on that picture. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 19-07-2009 19:23
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For comparison, Wiggins last year
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| Speedtrash |
Posted on 19-07-2009 19:26
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yes verbier its self is a hard climb, but is not so long and also the stage wasnt really demanding like next two stages....
doddy13 wrote:
Speedtrash wrote:
just relax guys, this one was just 1st stage from Alps and Ventoux, and I would say the easiest...
so there will be a lot more GC changes in next days, especially on Mt.Ventoux, I think it has never been such a mountain finish so late in the Tour, even after 2nd TT, riders will have like 3300 km in their legs a we might see some real cracks....
Sastre-I think he just wasnt able to follow hell-tempo set by other teams on the beginning but then he climbed very vell, he likes more "steady" climbing on longer climbs (yet to come) where he can attack and almost nobody can follow, and he is the guy for 3rd week, his time is still to come
Contador-if nothing special happens he will win
Peter Velits great ride!!! I hope now he is definitely team leader, not Gerdemnann or Knees
Why is it people are saying Verbier was easy?
Seriously... It wasn't easy, thats a hard climb. Ok, maybe not as long as the ventoux, but the ventoux isn't too much steeper, the ventoux averages at 7.6%, todays averaged at 7.6% |
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| TerpSpeed |
Posted on 19-07-2009 19:59
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re: Wiggins, what I'm confused about (and would like to be educated on!) is the composition of muscle fibers required for the pursuit discipline (and track cycling in general compared to grand tour climbing). This probably stems from the fact that I come from the world of running, where there is a very obvious line between events that use fast-twitch fibers (sprints) and slow-twitch fibers (distance).
If you remember, this is the same (obvious) argument that was used against the guy on here a while ago claiming Boonen could win the Tour eventually: Boonen, as a sprinter, is obviously fast-twitch based, and climbing is a slow-twitch event, so no matter what kind of retraining Boonen could undergo, he could never climb with the best. Fairly simple line of logic.
So my question is this: What kind of fibers does the pursuit event use? My hunch, which is solely informed by my background in running and nothing else, would be a mixture of fast and slow-twitch (aka a "middle-distance event" ), with a large amount of fast-twitch in there.
If this is in fact the case, that he was the best in the world just one year ago at a discipline that required a large balance of fast-twitch fibers, then I don't care whether he dropped 8 kg, should have been a "high-sixties" mountain even in the past, or is even "finally focusing on the road"...it still seems suspicious to me.
After all, Kohl was a climber, and then made his jump to the elite last year, and everyone just waited for him to get caught. Schumacher was a very good time trialist, had his ridiculous tour, and everyone waited for him to get caught.
Wiggins was a track cyclist. As much as I'm rooting for him (and I truly am!), it seems...incredibly, incredibly weird to me that he's riding with the Schlecks now.
But of course, this is probably because I'm not sure of the relative muscle composition needed for each event. Which I why I'm asking you guys, so that I can be educated on it 
Edited by TerpSpeed on 19-07-2009 20:00
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| issoisso |
Posted on 19-07-2009 20:02
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Pursuit is a time trial. it's about keeping a steady pace for some time. On the road, Wiggins excels at time trials, keeping a steady pace for a loooong time.
So, Wiggins' muscle fibers are obviously suited to time trialling. Therefore, his only problem with climbing is when the fast-twitch climbers stop and start and stop and start and (etc.) |
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