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News in February
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 10:26
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So, who is the British rider who will win the Tour in the next 5 years? (serious question by the way) |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 10:41
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My betting would be on Chris Froome, or maybe Ben Swift making the transition to a full on climber. I guess we'll all have to wait and see with baited breath!
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 12:14
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my first thought was swift. after his performance at the u23 world champs he's definately capable.
then again it could be anyone. if British cycling called me and said we want you to win the tour de france in 5 years. they would give my full time training with a full team of coaches, doctors dieticians etc working with me full time for 5 years then i would probably stand a chance of winning the tour.
BC have already shown that they have the money and the coaches to win. It's just a case of choosing a few riders to train up to TdF winning standards.
Edited by ringo182 on 26-02-2009 12:21
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 10:50
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-02-2009 12:29
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Tour de France Champion
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ringo182 wrote:
if British cycling called me and said we want you to win the tour de france in 5 years. they would give my full time training with a full team of coaches, doctors dieticians etc working with me full time for 5 years then i would probably stand a chance of winning the tour.
I'm torn between laughing, sighing, crying, or just plain old fashioned being bafflingly philosophical at that.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 26-02-2009 12:29
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Tour de France Champion
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So it turns out that all the rumours were true. Exciting  |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 12:44
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issoisso wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
if British cycling called me and said we want you to win the tour de france in 5 years. they would give my full time training with a full team of coaches, doctors dieticians etc working with me full time for 5 years then i would probably stand a chance of winning the tour.
I'm torn between laughing, sighing, crying, or just plain old fashioned being bafflingly philosophical at that.
explain? |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 26-02-2009 12:48
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I don't think it needs any further explanation  |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 12:51
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so is he saying that he doesn't believe it's possible? |
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| Xavier |
Posted on 26-02-2009 13:07
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lol |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-02-2009 13:36
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ringo182 wrote:
so is he saying that he doesn't believe it's possible?
It's like saying that if Inter hired you and nurtured you, you too could be Champions League MVP. Sorry, not going to happen
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 13:46
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i think that the reason that no-one seems to agree is that everyone sees the pro's as super human. They're not. They're just normal guys who get to ride their bike everyday of the year. cycling is an endurance sport, nothing more. anyone can have good endurance if they have the time to work at it. it's not like football or tennis where you need a skill to be good.
my point is that you could take any relitively fit person and after 5 years of specialized training with the sole aim of winning the tour, i reckon you'd be pretty close. at least someone who could ride the tour and maybe compete. i reckon if i was given 100% attention of coaches and dieticians et al for 5 years and could concentrate on purely cycling (no job or any other distractions) i would be a pro in about 2 or 3 years. does anyone disagree with that?
Look at Lance Armstrong, he was on his death bed in 1997. He could bearly walk let alone ride his bike. In 1999 he won the tour.
all it takes is the time to train. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 13:47
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issoisso wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
so is he saying that he doesn't believe it's possible?
It's like saying that if Inter hired you and nurtured you, you too could be Champions League MVP. Sorry, not going to happen
no because football is a skilled sport. Cycling is just endurance. anyone can have good endurance if they have the time to train. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 13:54
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her'e another example. anyone in britain who reads cycling weekly might have read last week about John Woodburn. He's 72 and last season did 10 miles in 21-43 and 25 miles in 54-21! How? Because he's retired and can train all week without any other distractions. Imagine what times he would be doing if he was 25 and had that time to train? He be up there with the pro's. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-02-2009 13:54
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ringo182 wrote:
i think that the reason that no-one seems to agree is that everyone sees the pro's as super human. They're not. They're just normal guys who get to ride their bike everyday of the year. cycling is an endurance sport, nothing more. anyone can have good endurance if they have the time to work at it. it's not like football or tennis where you need a skill to be good.
my point is that you could take any relitively fit person and after 5 years of specialized training with the sole aim of winning the tour, i reckon you'd be pretty close. at least someone who could ride the tour and maybe compete. i reckon if i was given 100% attention of coaches and dieticians et al for 5 years and could concentrate on purely cycling (no job or any other distractions) i would be a pro in about 2 or 3 years. does anyone disagree with that?
Uhh..yeah. I disagree with that.
They're not "normal guys who get to ride their bike everyday of the year". Quite the contrary. Among all the amateurs throughout the world, they're the ones who dominated. They were all the best ones. They are hand picked by the racing. They are the cream of the crop, the absolute best of the best of the best of the best of all the world.
And still, most of that "cream of the crop" isn't good enough to cut it as a Tour contender.
In fact, their level is so high that most of those who dominated as amateurs and youths, go on to be average at best as pros. That's how high the level is.
ringo182 wrote:
Look at Lance Armstrong, he was on his death bed in 1997. He could bearly walk let alone ride his bike. In 1999 he won the tour.
all it takes is the time to train
You just put up a tremendous argument against yourself.
In 2 years he took that leap. Not much time to train, just 2 years and suddenly he's at that immense level.
Can a normal person do that? of course not. It's the talent. If anyone could compete for a Tour win with good enough training, there would be no specialization in cycling. Everyone would be going for it.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| facmanpob |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:18
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2 points if I may:
1) - If Team Sky becomes a reality, does this mean that Sky Sports will do proper coverage of cycling in the future? I hope so!
2) - to join in with isso and ringo's debate, I believe that whilst training solely towards one goal, e.g. becoming a professional athlete, will give you a better chance of achieving that goal, a certain amount of natural aptitude for the task is required otherwise you'll never actually achieve it. Hard work alone rarely produces results if there is no basis of talent there to start with!
In addition, the third thing you need, apart from dedication and natural talent, is a huge amount of luck! How many athletes have never made the big time due to an untimely injury, or a recession reducing the number of available jobs? |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:19
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issoisso wrote:
Uhh..yeah. I disagree with that.
They're not "normal guys who get to ride their bike everyday of the year". Quite the contrary. Among all the amateurs throughout the world, they're the ones who dominated. They were all the best ones. They are hand picked by the racing. They are the cream of the crop, the absolute best of the best of the best of the best of all the world.
And still, most of that "cream of the crop" isn't good enough to cut it as a Tour contender.
In fact, their level is so high that most of those who dominated as amateurs and youths, go on to be average at best as pros. That's how high the level is.
but why are they the best amatures? because they started off cycling the youngest and then had the most time to train. There's no such thing in cycling as success without training. The riders who get signed up are those who start off young and so are at a good level when they leave school. Then, instead of getting a job like the rest of us, they get signed up by teams to ride full time. that is why they are so good as amatures. they wouldn't be that good if they had a job or other commitments. It's like the cyclist in my area. they best ones are the juniors with no responsibilities other then to go to school for 6 hours a day. they don't have a special skill or anything, they just have the time to train.
yes i agree that only the best make it, but i would say the most dedicated make it. those who are willing to put in the most hours in training are the most successful. which supports my arguement about anyone being capable of becoming a pro if they are willing to work for it and have the time to train.
i still stand by my theory. and with lance, there reason for his ultra low RHB was because he had the time to train it. He had been a triathelte from a young age and so he had trained it to be like that. Apparently Indurain had a larger then average heart, but only because he had trained so his heart had addapted.
there is nothing special about cyclists, they just have the time to train and their bodies adapt because of it. |
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| Ildabaoth |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:23
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Domestique
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issoisso wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
if British cycling called me and said we want you to win the tour de france in 5 years. they would give my full time training with a full team of coaches, doctors dieticians etc working with me full time for 5 years then i would probably stand a chance of winning the tour.
I'm torn between laughing, sighing, crying, or just plain old fashioned being bafflingly philosophical at that.
The only way a British wins the tour in 5 years is by awfully tweaking the DB. Seriously. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:29
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Tour de France Champion
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ringo182 wrote:
but why are they the best amatures? because they started off cycling the youngest and then had the most time to train.
Joaquim Agostinho became one of the best climbers of all time after starting cycling at the age of 26. Heck, Ludo Dierckxsens started cycling at 28 and was a pro by 30 years of age.
ringo182 wrote:
There's no such thing in cycling as success without training.
Nobody said there was.
ringo182 wrote:
The riders who get signed up are those who start off young and so are at a good level when they leave school. Then, instead of getting a job like the rest of us, they get signed up by teams to ride full time. that is why they are so good as amatures. they wouldn't be that good if they had a job or other commitments. It's like the cyclist in my area. they best ones are the juniors with no responsibilities other then to go to school for 6 hours a day. they don't have a special skill or anything, they just have the time to train.
I don't have an elaborate response to that. simply this: "no."
ringo182 wrote:
yes i agree that only the best make it, but i would say the most dedicated make it. those who are willing to put in the most hours in training are the most successful. which supports my arguement about anyone being capable of becoming a pro if they are willing to work for it and have the time to train.
i still stand by my theory. and with lance, there reason for his ultra low RHB was because he had the time to train it. He had been a triathelte from a young age and so he had trained it to be like that. Apparently Indurain had a larger then average heart, but only because he had trained so his heart had addapted.
there is nothing special about cyclists, they just have the time to train and their bodies adapt because of it.
In the words of a certain famous figure, who was at the time discussing Greg Lemond:
As a junior he won everything and he did it with the natural ease of a born winner. That is not to say he didn't work hard. Lots of racers work hard. The ones who float to the top are the talented winners.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:29
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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Ildabaoth wrote:
issoisso wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
if British cycling called me and said we want you to win the tour de france in 5 years. they would give my full time training with a full team of coaches, doctors dieticians etc working with me full time for 5 years then i would probably stand a chance of winning the tour.
I'm torn between laughing, sighing, crying, or just plain old fashioned being bafflingly philosophical at that.
The only way a British wins the tour in 5 years is by awfully tweaking the DB. Seriously.
i wouldn't say that. our youngsters are as good as any in the world. who would have said 5 years ago that we would dominate the track so much? if BC turns it's attention fully to the road then who knows what would happen. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-02-2009 14:31
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Tour de France Champion
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Ildabaoth wrote:
issoisso wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
if British cycling called me and said we want you to win the tour de france in 5 years. they would give my full time training with a full team of coaches, doctors dieticians etc working with me full time for 5 years then i would probably stand a chance of winning the tour.
I'm torn between laughing, sighing, crying, or just plain old fashioned being bafflingly philosophical at that.
The only way a British wins the tour in 5 years is by awfully tweaking the DB. Seriously.
I wasn't discussing the prospects of a british rider winning it. Who knows what the future brings. I was debating that the notion that a regular person with regular lactate threshold, regular VO2Max, regular everything can one day compete for the Tour de France is beyond insane.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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