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News in September
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 26-09-2008 20:13
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Stairs wrote:
Sometimes (always) I wish they would just close Operacion Puerto down once and for all. Fränk Schleck has now been called into hearing with the anti-doping committee and the Danish media have once again gone doping-balistic. Jesus Christ, you tell me one non-doped top rider from the pre-Landis- and Operacion Puerto-era. There are a bunch of them actually... Just not GC contenders on Grand Tours. Just not monuments winners or favourite riders.
This would be my absolutely personal point of view but I just think it would by now be ludicrous to give a two-year ban to the Puerto-riders. Let's all move on, we're a long way from the goal but a lot has happened since 2006 and even 2007. To ban riders like Michael Rogers, Alberto Contador and Fränk Schleck, Yeah, it's fair to Ullrich, Basso, Jaksche, whoever, to see some riders winning races while they're retired or suspended for doing nothing less and nothing more than those, winning loads of money and getting famous, just because for some reason, the Spanish Justice, erm, justice, refused to charge those.
That was two years ago, which is probably why the prescription time is 5 years for doping cases and 8 years for doping cases in Olympic Games.
Thta being said, I'd also be pissed that my favourite rider(s) got suspended now that his main opponents were suspended and that he had a good change of winning big races.
And what about clean riders (I mean the really clean ones), shouldn't they expect cheaters to be punished ?
three riders who we should believe to be riding on the most doping-free teams, for something that happened two years ago, would just be stupid in my opinion. Logical demonstration : name the two strongest teams in the peloton : Astana and CSC. Name the two cleanest teams in the peloton (you jsut did it) : Astana and CSC.
Conclusion : doping yourself makes you a worst rider.
Can't you see something wrong here ?
We could as well ban half the peloton if we wanted to. As I rememeber, the french labs told that approximately 50 % of the peloton had very suspicous or more or less positive tests in 2006 - that number being 25 % in 2007.
Btw., apparently 30 riders' samples will get retested with the new CERA blood test - this could turn into a massacre! Let the name-dropping begin! What's the problem with naming 30 or 150 riders for cheating if they really cheated ? That's too many so let's just forget it.
I can't subscribe to such a point of view. |
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| brun sweater |
Posted on 26-09-2008 20:39
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lol
Poor Frankie. How will he avoid a DNA comparison test? Becoming a spanish citizen maybe? |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 26-09-2008 21:01
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Actually, AFLD dude didn't mean there would be no sanction in his last interviews, he rather seems to be implying there will be some.
He also said that it could be the reason why some riders decided not to participate to the World Championship this week (Cancellara ? Kirchen ? Moncoutié ? ( ) Albasini ? Cavendish ?). |
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| Stairs |
Posted on 26-09-2008 21:23
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This is very quoatic so let's cut it down.
Aquarius wrote:
There are a bunch of them actually... Just not GC contenders on Grand Tours. Just not monuments winners or favourite riders.
Exactly.
Yeah, it's fair to Ullrich, Basso, Jaksche, whoever, to see some riders winning races while they're retired or suspended for doing nothing less and nothing more than those, winning loads of money and getting famous, just because for some reason, the Spanish Justice, erm, justice, refused to charge those.
That was two years ago, which is probably why the prescription time is 5 years for doping cases and 8 years for doping cases in Olympic Games.
Thta being said, I'd also be pissed that my favourite rider(s) got suspended now that his main opponents were suspended and that he had a good change of winning big races.
And what about clean riders (I mean the really clean ones), shouldn't they expect cheaters to be punished ?
You're missing my point here. First of all, let's just get the favourite-assumptions out of this discussion. You have no idea who is my favourites and who is not. My opinion has nothing to do with my favourites.
The repeated phrase of this post would be that the times are changing. If I was riding clean and I was beated by a doper, I would of course expect him to be punished. My personal opinion is that a two-year ban would be too much. This particular case went on from the start of the 2000's until 2006. That's two years ago. A lot has happened since then and a two-year ban for something you did in, what I hope was, a different environment and a different time, would not be completely fair. But, as we saw, 2007 was not completely different from 2006. If 2008 is, I don't know, but my opinion is based on my believe that it is.
Logical demonstration : name the two strongest teams in the peloton : Astana and CSC. Name the two cleanest teams in the peloton (you jsut did it) : Astana and CSC.
Conclusion : doping yourself makes you a worst rider.
Can't you see something wrong here ?
You see what you want to see. That goes for both of us, of course. Mainly, as I read you, your point would be that if you ride the fastest, you must be doped. The reason for that point of view is obvious. My point is that the times are changing. Mainly the performances measured in watts and VAMs are falling. They have decreased significantly compared to just last year. Also, I believe in the anti-doping programs as I, with my lack of knowledge, don't see what could beat them in a way where the use of EPO and blood transfusions would be really perceptible. We all make our own interpretations of everything we see in this hopeless world of cycling and that is mine.
What's the problem with naming 30 or 150 riders for cheating if they really cheated ? That's too many so let's just forget it.
I can't subscribe to such a point of view.
My point still being that the times were different. It for sure doesn't make for example Riis' cheating better that he did it in the 90's but as Ullrich said, "I haven't done anything wrong" - meaning that he didn't do anthing wrong at that particular time, as he did what you were 'supposed' to do. Most do as the masses and they follow their times fashion and mentality. I for sure get your point and my point is absolutely not that it is ok to cheat, my point just being that to ban half the peloton for doing something which was legally wrong but, for the whole environment, morally ok and everyday standards, that would be silly to me. Mostly, this is because of my, indeed naive, thought of everyones ability and chance to improve what they've done wrong earlier in their lifes. As I wrote, the times were different. If Carlos Sastre had ridden Alpe d'Huez in 37 minutes with Valverde being just ten seconds behind, my opinion would have been different.
Never.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 11:47
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| samtheman |
Posted on 26-09-2008 21:43
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Domestique
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cyclings ever favourite discussion
Contador is doped cos I don't like him, I like Fränk Schleck though...
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| Rin |
Posted on 26-09-2008 21:59
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2748
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The UCI lifted the ProTour calendar for the next season
As you can see , there are UPT and HIS , that is a new differentiation UPT = UCI ProTour and HIS = Historical Races (ASO , RCS and UniPublic races)
Also Paris-Tours is missing (is listed as 1.HC)
The Deutschland Tour starts with the Vuelta , the Tour de Pologne is the first stage race after the Tour de France
20.01.-25.01. Tour Down Under AUS UPT
08.03.-15.03. Paris - Nice FRA HIS
11.03.-17.03. Tirreno-Adriatico ITA HIS
21.03. Milano-Sanremo ITA HIS
05.04. Ronde van Vlaanderen/Tour des Flandres BEL UPT
06.04.-11.04. Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco ESP UPT
08.04. Gent - Wevelgem BEL UPT
12.04. Paris - Roubaix FRA HIS
19.04. Amstel Gold Race NED UPT
22.04. La Flèche Wallonne BEL HIS
26.04. Liège - Bastogne - Liège BEL HIS
28.04.-03.05. Tour de Romandie SUI UPT
09.05.-31.05. Giro d'Italia ITA HIS
18.05.-24.05. Volta Ciclista a Catalunya ESP UPT
07.06.-14.06. Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré FRA UPT
13.06.-21.06. Tour de Suisse SUI UPT
04.07.-26.07. Tour de France FRA HIS
01.08. Clasica Ciclista San Sebastian ESP UPT
02.08.-08.08. Tour de Pologne POL UPT
16.08. Vattenfall Cyclassics GER UPT
19.08.-26.08. Tour of Benelux --- UPT
23.08. GP Quest France - Plouay FRA UPT
29.08.-06.09. Deutschland-Tour GER UPT
29.08.-20.09. Vuelta a España ESP HIS
October
17.10. Giro di Lombardia ITA HIS
Not terminated
??.??.-??.??. Tour of Sochi RUS UPT
https://62.50.72.8...ON_eng.htm
There you can look also after the UCI Continental Tours |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:06
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Team Manager
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Looks like the Tour of Britain has gone down a category to 2.2 
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| brun sweater |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:06
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So, the Pro Tour is still in function, even though the teams left the Pro Tour? |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:09
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Grand Tour Specialist
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brun sweater wrote:
So, the Pro Tour is still in function, even though the teams left the Pro Tour? Last rumour is that the teams won't withdraw their Pro Tour licence next season. Only FDJeux will register as a Contiental Pro team, whereas Garmin will likely apply for a Pro Tour one although they really don't want to ride la Vuelta. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:14
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Only changes to the Continental Tour for next year:
Giro di Sardegna comes in. Held on Feb. 1st. That's now the new opening of the european season.
Volta ao Alentejo moved to early April
Volta a Portugal back to early August as in all non-olympic years
Tour of Britain down to cat. 2
Volta a Galicia is a new race (cat. 2)
Veenendaal - Veenendaal (Hors Catergory) moves back to mid-may
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:15
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Isso, do you have any idea for why the Tour of Britain may have been demoted? And does it now mean that no 'ProTour' teams can ride it?
Edited by SportingNonsense on 26-09-2008 22:15
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:16
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Tour de France Champion
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No idea why. Usually the quality of the participating field is the only reason they change anything, but I can't be 100% sure. They can still ride 
They can't ride national events only, unless they're from the same nation as the event AND have a certain number of under-23 riders.
Edited by issoisso on 26-09-2008 22:17
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Dankan |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:23
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Isso, do you have any idea for why the Tour of Britain may have been demoted? And does it now mean that no 'ProTour' teams can ride it?
The reason I'd use to justify that: now clubteams like Sigma Sport or regional/national selections can ride it. That can be useful for the ToB I think. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:23
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Tour of Benelux and Tour de Pologne are still there as well as Plouay and Tour Down Under.
They should get rid of those. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:27
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Dankan wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
Isso, do you have any idea for why the Tour of Britain may have been demoted? And does it now mean that no 'ProTour' teams can ride it?
The reason I'd use to justify that: now clubteams like Sigma Sport or regional/national selections can ride it. That can be useful for the ToB I think.
Well, the impression I got from the Tour of Britain was they they are looking to continually inprove the race with more stages, higher quality fields and stuff like that. This just seems a step in the wrong direction.
Its not as if there are any big prominent club teams in Britain. The British Premier Calendar races are almost all won by either Pinarello, Plowman Craven, Rapha Condor or Halfords BikeHut. The first 3 rode the ToB this year, while the 2 sole riders of the Halfords team both featured on the GB squad there.
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| Dankan |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:34
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Then let's look at the easiest justification: MONEY. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:42
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Tour de France Champion
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The Mont Ventoux to be 2009 Tour penultimate stage
By Jean-François Quénet in Varese, Italy
Mont Ventoux:
Photo ©: Sirotti (Click for larger image)
Before the announcement of the whole route of the 2009 Tour de France on October 22 in Paris, it became known that the Mont Ventoux will be back on the course after seven years of absence. The information was broken by Claude Haut, the president of the Vaucluse province.
The big news is about the day that the riders will have to climb the "Giant of Provence" – it will be on the second last day of the race, in July 25, prior to transferring to Paris for the traditional parade on the Champs-Élysées. Contrary to previous rumours, it will not be an uphill time trial but a normal stage starting in Montélimar. It means the course will go via Bédoin for the 21.6km grueling climb.
This is a typical choice by race director Christian Prudhomme who wants the suspense to be carried until the very end, but it was made before Lance Armstrong’s come back announcement. During his years racing the Tour de France and the Dauphiné, the Texan never liked the Mont Ventoux and never won up there. Together with Joux-Plane, he rated this climb as the one that made him suffer the most.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| stuartmcstuart |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:52
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Sprinter
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The ventoux is going to be ace! Yes!  |
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| chuckie |
Posted on 26-09-2008 22:55
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Looks like the Tour of Britain has gone down a category to 2.2
What was it last year?
Could it be to do with how it's organised eg.finances,road closures.
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| Phanekim |
Posted on 27-09-2008 03:48
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Big news guys...retroactive testing begins on TDF samples. Frank Schleck already in trouble as it is.
https://afp.google...11UIT2fuOw
https://translate....p;ie=UTF-8 |
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