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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 16:41
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 857
Joined: 13-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Only downhill and Fighter can be more |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 16:42
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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83 - Froome Quintana
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81 - Nibali Contador Landa |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 25-07-2015 16:44
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
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Landra in 1 Giro is better in Mountain than Valverde??? |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 16:46
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Breakaway Specialist
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Meh no Riis no way. Contador 82 at least and so is Nibali. Landa 80 for now. He must deserve the 81 with a good Vuelta or a good next season. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 16:49
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
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dark_x2012 wrote:
Meh no Riis no way. Contador 82 at least and so is Nibali. Landa 80 for now. He must deserve the 81 with a good Vuelta or a good next season.
Quinco and Froome should be 2 higher than the next one. No way Contador deserves 82 after this year imo.
As I have said before, It simply cant be a fluke to be the best climber in the Giro. I guess 80 is fine, now Im betting on Landa so show exactly what he did in the Giro.
Valverde should be fine with 80 when Contador and Nibbles are 81 considering his insane backup stats he should be given. I forgot to put Porte at 81 as well. |
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 25-07-2015 16:51
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Domestique
Posts: 400
Joined: 14-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Good stats if you want a boring game.
Not close to realistic if you ask me.
Froome 84
Quintana 84
Contador 84
Nibali 84
If they all were in good condition we wouldnt discuss this at all
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 16:53
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I dont play the game, but looking at this season, I think those stats i put forward to be the correct ones. Uphill, Froome and Quintana are just in another league, thats just how it is. |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 25-07-2015 16:54
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
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dark_x2012 wrote:
Meh no Riis no way. Contador 82 at least and so is Nibali. Landa 80 for now. He must deserve the 81 with a good Vuelta or a good next season.
+1 |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 22:47
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 16:55
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 857
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Contador rode an extremely tough Giro alone. Lost a lot of energy in the mountains and had nothing in the tank even for the 20th stage, what remains for the Tour. Nibali just didn't peak correctly which he should do if he wants to do better next year. I'm fine with Conta on 82 but 81 is way too low. Also wouldn't give Porte more than 80, even 79. This guy just slept from stage 11 to 19. It's normal he would be fresher than the rest. He only had one good day(+5) while the others had terrible ones then. Piti on 81 is okay. It's not Conta's fault that PCM thinks fatigue is nothing and that he would do good in the Tour with 82. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 17:05
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
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Why should Contador be rewarded for his 2014 campaign? He hasnt shown any kind of dominance at any point this year and was up against a better climber in Landa who just was held down (at least in better shape, dno). Yes, Contador is a champion, but I dont support giving him stats based on legacy. He will obviously get much better supporting stats than Landa who at this point very much is a one trick pony in the mountains. If anything, I would give Contador 81,5, but you cant and I just feel 82 is too high at this point.
Nibali is another case, now you are rewarding him for being lazy in terms of his training and hypothetically would have been better - how can we know? Obviously, as well as Contador, he would have very good back up stats, but at this point, is 82 fair? I dont think so. Unfortunately you can put him at 81,5, but his showing this year doesnt equals 82 to me.
Porte is one of the best pure climbers out there now. No way he should be given less than 81. He has other problems regarding his health, psyche, recovery etc., but that doesnt justify being dumped to 80 after a fantastic season excluding Giro.
Valverde? If Nibali and Contador are 81, he should be 80, but pretty much with the highest backup stats in the game. |
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| bob7 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 17:19
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Stagiare
Posts: 220
Joined: 27-01-2009
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Porte cannot ride GT. 81 MO made him contender, which he's not. His stamina is very low, his recovery is very low and his psyche is extremely low (unfortunately this stat isn't in game).
Landa is another question. He may be another Thomas de Gendt, don't forget about it. Landa is very glorified this year, when only got ONE good race. He lost to Contador 3 minutes and you still think he is better than him. Well, he isn't.
One guy wrote it, this is a game and gameplay it's not like a real life. Contador, Froome, Quintana and Nibali has to be much better than any other rider in GT. |
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| kissaha |
Posted on 25-07-2015 17:22
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Sprinter
Posts: 1803
Joined: 21-02-2007
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My suggestion for stats. I might missed a few riders.
kissaha attached the following image:
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| kissaha |
Posted on 25-07-2015 17:31
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Sprinter
Posts: 1803
Joined: 21-02-2007
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Riis123 wrote:
Why should Contador be rewarded for his 2014 campaign? He hasnt shown any kind of dominance at any point this year and was up against a better climber in Landa who just was held down (at least in better shape, dno). Yes, Contador is a champion, but I dont support giving him stats based on legacy. He will obviously get much better supporting stats than Landa who at this point very much is a one trick pony in the mountains. If anything, I would give Contador 81,5, but you cant and I just feel 82 is too high at this point.
Nibali is another case, now you are rewarding him for being lazy in terms of his training and hypothetically would have been better - how can we know? Obviously, as well as Contador, he would have very good back up stats, but at this point, is 82 fair? I dont think so. Unfortunately you can put him at 81,5, but his showing this year doesnt equals 82 to me.
Porte is one of the best pure climbers out there now. No way he should be given less than 81. He has other problems regarding his health, psyche, recovery etc., but that doesnt justify being dumped to 80 after a fantastic season excluding Giro.
Valverde? If Nibali and Contador are 81, he should be 80, but pretty much with the highest backup stats in the game.
If we had a consistency stat, I would give Porte 82/83, but we don't. I agree that he is absolutely one of the best climbers in the peloton, but he is just way too unreliable. Even a very low REC stat doesn't outweigh how inconsistent he is. |
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| kida |
Posted on 25-07-2015 17:34
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Domestique
Posts: 405
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Not sure what you've got Froome's REC stat at for V1.0 but it should be a little lower. Whilst he's a beast in week long races and very good in the first 2 weeks of a GT, the last few GT's he has ridden he's faded in the 3rd week. |
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| bajbar |
Posted on 25-07-2015 17:35
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Under 23
Posts: 84
Joined: 15-08-2010
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Good stats. I just believe Contador should be 77 (or maybe 78 - he has been on par with or better than Froome in long TTs since the Tour 2013, but not sure) TT. Uran is on 77 but in the Giro TT Contador got a lot of time on him. |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 25-07-2015 17:36
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
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Interesting way to suggest stats, kissaha. Some stuff I disagree with obviously but still nice way to do it, especially considering backup stats often get forgotten in these discussions. (Why you put Contador on that amazing REC is beyond me though  )
Nice to hear all your opinions, but I sense a lot of disagreement
What I can tell you guys though is that Froome and Quintana will not be 2 above the rest.
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| kissaha |
Posted on 25-07-2015 17:41
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Sprinter
Posts: 1803
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Jesleyh wrote:
Interesting way to suggest stats, kissaha. Some stuff I disagree with obviously but still nice way to do it, especially considering backup stats often get forgotten in these discussions. (Why you put Contador on that amazing REC is beyond me though )
Nice to hear all your opinions, but I sense a lot of disagreement
What I can tell you guys though is that Froome and Quintana will not be 2 above the rest.
Backup stats are just as important as just plain MO/HI, and it annoys me that people are forgetting them. Regarding Bertie, I kinda overlooked it, he probably should be 3 or 4 lower.
I'm also quite unsure on TVGs 81. I think I'll keep him there for now, and maybe lower his backup stats a bit.
EDIT:
And while I'm at it, there's one more thing that annoys me even more. In almost every DB, the second and third tier riders never receive high back up stats, never! There are many of them who excels in certain areas, Breschel for example. He is almost always at the top in WCs, and therefore thrive in long races. He should have a high STA stat. And the same goes for Kruisjwijk and Hesjedal, they should have very high REC, probably higher than many of the top GC guys. These are just examples from the top of my head, and there are many more. I think this will make the gameplay much better, as the course makes a bigger impact, as opposed to if the best riders are the best in every stat.
Edited by kissaha on 25-07-2015 17:47
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 17:47
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Yeah, I may miss the gameplay-thingy compared to IRL, since I dont really know how it works in game. But either way, I just hope not to see Contador 2 better than Landa, regardless of Landa over performing or whatever that some have suggesed (he was also only beaten by Porte in Trentino and won the hardest stage in the Basque Country), heck, in my mind, they should be the same. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 25-07-2015 19:18
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
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As Jesley said Kissaha has some of the best thought out stats that I've seen on this forum and like me has both Aru and Landa at 81 mountain. I disagree with some of his stats but about 80% and the important ones I have the same, so great work Kissaha and he's right in that a lot of people don't pay so much attention to secondary stats and spend so much time debating on the main stats.
Overall I think it's important at times to also sacrifice realism for gameplay, for example I normally have riders like Pozzovivo and Uran on 79 just for the Giro and 78 for the rest of the season.
I think some work really needs to go into the fighter and rec stat as well, as there are some riders in this tour that have ridden aggressively even if they didn't have the form to win a stage like Rolland and Hesjedal, also Talansky has been out there everyday as well it seems.
I also think that 'resistence' needs to be explored more as it's a stat that I think a lot of people don't really pay much attention to and what it actually does.
People like Breschel are classics men and they should always have a good endurance stat anyway. |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 19:28
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 857
Joined: 13-05-2013
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Riis123 wrote:
Yeah, I may miss the gameplay-thingy compared to IRL, since I dont really know how it works in game. But either way, I just hope not to see Contador 2 better than Landa, regardless of Landa over performing or whatever that some have suggesed (he was also only beaten by Porte in Trentino and won the hardest stage in the Basque Country), heck, in my mind, they should be the same.
I understand you fully about Landa. But last year when Nibali won the Tour I said that there was no real concurrence and we should see what he and the others will show the next year. Not much was the answer, at least for the GC. Going for stagewins and having rest in the other stages just prooved that the frenchies were overhyped last year.(At least they don't deserve that 80 for Pinot, and I'm still sceptical for Bardet on 79) Well pretty much I think we should give Landa some time before giving him 81 and the lowering it to 77-78 again. I'd say 80 with good back-up stats for now and time will show. |
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