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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 19-09-2013 17:09
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Breakaway Specialist
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issoisso wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
However i like Schopenhauer and his thoughts, there are two sides of this coin. Blind nationalism is bad, but i dont like when any form of nationalism is smacked up. There is nothing bad when someone is proud of things their fathers and father's fathers achieved.
Everyone in the Czech Republic and Slovakia is your father or father's father?
Are you a redneck? 
One big happy family  |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-09-2013 06:10
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World Champion
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Yep, pleasure all the time.
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 20-09-2013 08:39
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Team Leader
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Lets just say.
Froome seems to be one of the most suspicious riders around at the moment.
Whether they prove anything is yet to be seen.
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| jacobjc88 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 17:54
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Domestique
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Let's continue the hate! lol
JTL has probably taken something. It should be the biology passport which should have caught him, but I'm not really sure. Explains why he didn't drive the WC today. Sad. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 06-12-2025 17:20
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 29-09-2013 18:02
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Tour de France Champion
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jacobjc88 wrote:
Let's continue the hate! lol
JTL has probably taken something. It should be the biology passport which should have caught him, but I'm not really sure. Explains why he didn't drive the WC today. Sad.
Except the period in question was Pre-Sky, and this has been confirmed by the anti-doping authorities
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| kumazan |
Posted on 29-09-2013 18:16
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issoisso wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
jacobjc88 wrote:
Let's continue the hate! lol
JTL has probably taken something. It should be the biology passport which should have caught him, but I'm not really sure. Explains why he didn't drive the WC today. Sad.
Except the period in question was Pre-Sky, and this has been confirmed by the anti-doping authorities
Both Brian Smith and Richard Moore have confirmed that he was part of the Sky environment - including attending Sky training camps - since at least May
And it gives further evidence that the sentence in your signature is just more bullshit from Sky.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 29-09-2013 18:17
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Tour de France Champion
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issoisso wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
jacobjc88 wrote:
Let's continue the hate! lol
JTL has probably taken something. It should be the biology passport which should have caught him, but I'm not really sure. Explains why he didn't drive the WC today. Sad.
Except the period in question was Pre-Sky, and this has been confirmed by the anti-doping authorities
Both Brian Smith and Richard Moore have confirmed that he was part of the Sky environment - including attending Sky training camps - since at least May
What i heard was that the interesting time was around February, during his good spell in Spain when he first came to major attention
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 21:24
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Garmin also tested him in March, and weren't worried by his blood values.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 21:31
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World Champion
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So Vaughters "we care about blood values" thing is bs? |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 21:38
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Quite possibly, I vaguely trust Vaughters so would like to see him comment.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 22:00
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issoisso wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
weren't worried by his blood values.
Source?
The Sunday Times article by Walsh.
He says that Sky and Garmin were both chasing JTL, and that Sky were aware that Garmin were happy with JTL's blood in March.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 22:16
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World Champion
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issoisso wrote:
A Murdoch employee?
Allow me to not take it as a fact
Agreed. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 29-09-2013 22:20
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The Endura team manager may be a more reliable source, from his JTL defense on cyclingnews
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/forme...rnan-locke
“He was tested by Garmin, we tried to have him tested in this country but it wasn’t feasible because you’d have to get tested in Europe with all the travelling. Endura was prepared to pay for that and John wanted it because he was annoyed with all the rumours.”
“Jonathan Vaughters got in contact and said there were no abnormalities in John’s test and that they’d still like to progress with a possible chat of taking him on. Then Sky approached him and took him to a training camp in Tenerife at the start of May. I am not sure what testing Sky did or when [they] started. No matter what he was still under Endura. Sky looked after him at Worlds then the process started at their off season training camp. What happened during Sky training camps, I don't know. As far as I’m concerned Sky showed all due diligence in looking after him. I think I even sent the results from Jonathan Vaughters’ tests to them. They’ve seen all the data. As far as I’m concerned Jonathan is the real deal. Sky, Garmin and Endura all thought there were no irregularities with Jonathan.”
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 22:49
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issoisso wrote:
A Murdoch employee?
Allow me to not take it as a fact
Ignoring anything said by the biggest new organisations in the world seems pretty biassed.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| CountArach |
Posted on 29-09-2013 23:26
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mb2612 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
A Murdoch employee?
Allow me to not take it as a fact
Ignoring anything said by the biggest new organisations in the world seems pretty biassed.
Not sure if sarcasm?
Well assuming it isn't, then ignoring the statements from a media empire which is not exactly known for its journalistic integrity and which has a track record of editorialising to create and support its own narratives isn't biased, it is common sense. It would be stupid for someone in the Murdoch empire to criticise Sky, as that would be bad for business. As such even if Walsh wanted to criticise them then his editor could just tell him to write a different article or refuse to print the critical article. Walsh needs to praise Sky to keep his job.
Add to that the fact that Walsh has been a massive apologist for Sky in the last year or two and ignoring what he says makes a lot of sense. Paul Kimmage is one of the only voices in the (English) media who I will trust completely.
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 30-09-2013 00:31
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CountArach wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
A Murdoch employee?
Allow me to not take it as a fact
Ignoring anything said by the biggest new organisations in the world seems pretty biassed.
Not sure if sarcasm?
Well assuming it isn't, then ignoring the statements from a media empire which is not exactly known for its journalistic integrity and which has a track record of editorialising to create and support its own narratives isn't biased, it is common sense. It would be stupid for someone in the Murdoch empire to criticise Sky, as that would be bad for business. As such even if Walsh wanted to criticise them then his editor could just tell him to write a different article or refuse to print the critical article. Walsh needs to praise Sky to keep his job.
Add to that the fact that Walsh has been a massive apologist for Sky in the last year or two and ignoring what he says makes a lot of sense. Paul Kimmage is one of the only voices in the (English) media who I will trust completely.
Oh sure, I wouldn't trust Walsh's conclusions on Sky, but when the front page story of a pretty highly regarded newspaper is an expose by someone we know has inside access it seems stupid to assume they have their facts wrong.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 30-09-2013 19:28
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I tweeted Vaugters, unsurprisingly he didn't respond.
Surely you accept that Garmin testing a rider and missing something is a more likely story than the entire British cycling fraternity lying about something which is easily verifiable.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 30-09-2013 19:48
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Garmin - Did one blood test in early 2012, post JTL's performances in Europe. What did they test for? Haematocrit levels? White blood cell count? What? That he had blood? We have no idea. What we do know is that it was ONE test.
Biological Passport - Have done several tests (I would imagine around 4 over the past year at least going on other rider accounts of testing etc). Measuring not just one thing, but everything to do with his blood. They've found out abnormal values from his first test - around the time when he was still in stellar "attacking-with-Contador-at-World-Champs" form/when it was announced Sky had signed him. Then what happens? His form drops due to "over training", his blood values/abilities return to normal as he's actually being tested now, and, lo and behold, his values aren't the same.
That's how I've been reading into all this anyway. |
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| ChrisHallUK |
Posted on 30-09-2013 20:01
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rjc_43 wrote:They've found out abnormal values from his first test - around the time when he was still in stellar "attacking-with-Contador-at-World-Champs" form/when it was announced Sky had signed him. Then what happens? His form drops due to "over training", his blood values/abilities return to normal as he's actually being tested now, and, lo and behold, his values aren't the same.
That's how I've been reading into all this anyway.
I'm not a Sky hater, far from it and I totally agree, Sky quickly released a statement making sure to add it was discrepancies from pre-Sky days, and you can't imagine it is the other way considering the rapid drop in ability, not just form. Worrying news for JTL but could be a blessing for Sky as they can replace him with a strong domestique as something is "there" and Sky is zero tolerant so he will be on his way out, probably to Garmin as they are practically a rehab team! |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 30-09-2013 20:10
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And, to be fair, his excuse for poor form this year because he's overtrained would, actually, be quite correct.
If Sky gave him numbers to hit that were based off his "abnormal" values, then to try and hit them whilst at "normal" values would be recipe for over training very fast and very effectively. |
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