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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 19-09-2013 12:01
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World Champion
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However i like Schopenhauer and his thoughts, there are two sides of this coin. Blind nationalism is bad, but i dont like when any form of nationalism is smacked up. There is nothing bad when someone is proud of things their fathers and father's fathers achieved.
Together with that comes things ,which i am not proud of about my compatriots, i feel that it is natural.
Anyway, Sky are doping program, what is next on the menu? 
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 19-09-2013 12:02
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-09-2013 12:12
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Tour de France Champion
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Aquarius wrote:
Arthur Schopenhauer
“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”
Well, I subscribe to that idea, hence why I feel it's wrong to support X or Y on the sole basis of nationality.
Seems to describe 90% of Americans And thank god Froome is Kenyan and Wiggins Belgian 
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 00:50
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 19-09-2013 16:38
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Dippofix wrote:
It may be useless, but it can still be incredibly funny. Did you never trie to convert you're Religion teacher to atheism when you were at school?
No, I had the luck to go to a secular school where I could choose for "non-confessional morals" instead of religion. I took part in a roman-catholic class once and we watched a movie about the pope 
Spoiler TheManxMissile wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Why is this thread even still alive? Pretty much everyone on this site with a bit of cycling knowledge allready accepted that Sky's "super science methods" are actually doping. Those who didn't won't be convinced otherwise until Froome admits it himself at Oprah Winfrey.
Only debating with creationists, conspiracy theorists and political fanboys seems more useless.
This is actually a more narrow minded view than any i've seen from "the fanboys"! There is naivety and then there is plain blindness...
Currently there is zero proof of organized (or individual) doping at Sky. Everything is anecdotal or circumstantial or based upon debatable science/figures.
Have you considered that Sky might in fact be clean and that Froome et. al. have just peaked or found a new level thanks to an improved support system (notice i didn't say training)? For any of their riders the performances are not in the realms of fantasy or actually just havn't appeared.
Even Froome has some defenses which have some base in fact (illness) which kept him behind early on in his career. Wiggins had previously finished 4th in the Tour before he joined Sky. Porte had been talked about as a serious talent. And they keep buying up talented, strong riders who will perform well at almost any team.
You say people won't be convinced until Froome admits it (or until there is a positive test), and therefore this is dumb or something... And what is wrong with this? Proof is an absolute not a scale, and yes perhaps it is faith that Sky is clean, but what is wrong with faith in your national team! Nothing, and to say otherwise because of the rough circumstantial stuff around, or because you don't like the team or it's style is, quite frankly, worse.
I don't think anyone on this site ever claimed that all Sky riders dope or that only Sky riders dope. And indeed there isn't solid proof, that why I said "accepted" and not "know". But the improvements and performances of some Sky riders lead many of us to be sure of doping use within Team Sky, especially because the similarities with other teams from the past whose performences where backed up by doping use. For more details, there are 133 pages to read in this thread. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 19-09-2013 17:06
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
However i like Schopenhauer and his thoughts, there are two sides of this coin. Blind nationalism is bad, but i dont like when any form of nationalism is smacked up. There is nothing bad when someone is proud of things their fathers and father's fathers achieved.
Everyone in the Czech Republic and Slovakia is your father or father's father?
Are you a redneck?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 19-09-2013 17:09
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issoisso wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
However i like Schopenhauer and his thoughts, there are two sides of this coin. Blind nationalism is bad, but i dont like when any form of nationalism is smacked up. There is nothing bad when someone is proud of things their fathers and father's fathers achieved.
Everyone in the Czech Republic and Slovakia is your father or father's father?
Are you a redneck?
One big happy family  |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-09-2013 06:10
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
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Yep, pleasure all the time.
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 20-09-2013 08:39
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Team Leader
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Lets just say.
Froome seems to be one of the most suspicious riders around at the moment.
Whether they prove anything is yet to be seen.
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| jacobjc88 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 17:54
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Domestique
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Let's continue the hate! lol
JTL has probably taken something. It should be the biology passport which should have caught him, but I'm not really sure. Explains why he didn't drive the WC today. Sad. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 29-09-2013 18:02
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Tour de France Champion
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jacobjc88 wrote:
Let's continue the hate! lol
JTL has probably taken something. It should be the biology passport which should have caught him, but I'm not really sure. Explains why he didn't drive the WC today. Sad.
Except the period in question was Pre-Sky, and this has been confirmed by the anti-doping authorities
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| kumazan |
Posted on 29-09-2013 18:16
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issoisso wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
jacobjc88 wrote:
Let's continue the hate! lol
JTL has probably taken something. It should be the biology passport which should have caught him, but I'm not really sure. Explains why he didn't drive the WC today. Sad.
Except the period in question was Pre-Sky, and this has been confirmed by the anti-doping authorities
Both Brian Smith and Richard Moore have confirmed that he was part of the Sky environment - including attending Sky training camps - since at least May
And it gives further evidence that the sentence in your signature is just more bullshit from Sky.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 29-09-2013 18:17
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Tour de France Champion
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issoisso wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
jacobjc88 wrote:
Let's continue the hate! lol
JTL has probably taken something. It should be the biology passport which should have caught him, but I'm not really sure. Explains why he didn't drive the WC today. Sad.
Except the period in question was Pre-Sky, and this has been confirmed by the anti-doping authorities
Both Brian Smith and Richard Moore have confirmed that he was part of the Sky environment - including attending Sky training camps - since at least May
What i heard was that the interesting time was around February, during his good spell in Spain when he first came to major attention
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 21:24
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Garmin also tested him in March, and weren't worried by his blood values.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 21:31
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So Vaughters "we care about blood values" thing is bs? |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 21:38
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Quite possibly, I vaguely trust Vaughters so would like to see him comment.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 22:00
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issoisso wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
weren't worried by his blood values.
Source?
The Sunday Times article by Walsh.
He says that Sky and Garmin were both chasing JTL, and that Sky were aware that Garmin were happy with JTL's blood in March.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 22:16
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World Champion
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issoisso wrote:
A Murdoch employee?
Allow me to not take it as a fact
Agreed. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 29-09-2013 22:20
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Team Manager
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The Endura team manager may be a more reliable source, from his JTL defense on cyclingnews
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/forme...rnan-locke
“He was tested by Garmin, we tried to have him tested in this country but it wasn’t feasible because you’d have to get tested in Europe with all the travelling. Endura was prepared to pay for that and John wanted it because he was annoyed with all the rumours.”
“Jonathan Vaughters got in contact and said there were no abnormalities in John’s test and that they’d still like to progress with a possible chat of taking him on. Then Sky approached him and took him to a training camp in Tenerife at the start of May. I am not sure what testing Sky did or when [they] started. No matter what he was still under Endura. Sky looked after him at Worlds then the process started at their off season training camp. What happened during Sky training camps, I don't know. As far as I’m concerned Sky showed all due diligence in looking after him. I think I even sent the results from Jonathan Vaughters’ tests to them. They’ve seen all the data. As far as I’m concerned Jonathan is the real deal. Sky, Garmin and Endura all thought there were no irregularities with Jonathan.”
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 29-09-2013 22:49
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issoisso wrote:
A Murdoch employee?
Allow me to not take it as a fact
Ignoring anything said by the biggest new organisations in the world seems pretty biassed.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| CountArach |
Posted on 29-09-2013 23:26
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mb2612 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
A Murdoch employee?
Allow me to not take it as a fact
Ignoring anything said by the biggest new organisations in the world seems pretty biassed.
Not sure if sarcasm?
Well assuming it isn't, then ignoring the statements from a media empire which is not exactly known for its journalistic integrity and which has a track record of editorialising to create and support its own narratives isn't biased, it is common sense. It would be stupid for someone in the Murdoch empire to criticise Sky, as that would be bad for business. As such even if Walsh wanted to criticise them then his editor could just tell him to write a different article or refuse to print the critical article. Walsh needs to praise Sky to keep his job.
Add to that the fact that Walsh has been a massive apologist for Sky in the last year or two and ignoring what he says makes a lot of sense. Paul Kimmage is one of the only voices in the (English) media who I will trust completely.
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 30-09-2013 00:31
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CountArach wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
A Murdoch employee?
Allow me to not take it as a fact
Ignoring anything said by the biggest new organisations in the world seems pretty biassed.
Not sure if sarcasm?
Well assuming it isn't, then ignoring the statements from a media empire which is not exactly known for its journalistic integrity and which has a track record of editorialising to create and support its own narratives isn't biased, it is common sense. It would be stupid for someone in the Murdoch empire to criticise Sky, as that would be bad for business. As such even if Walsh wanted to criticise them then his editor could just tell him to write a different article or refuse to print the critical article. Walsh needs to praise Sky to keep his job.
Add to that the fact that Walsh has been a massive apologist for Sky in the last year or two and ignoring what he says makes a lot of sense. Paul Kimmage is one of the only voices in the (English) media who I will trust completely.
Oh sure, I wouldn't trust Walsh's conclusions on Sky, but when the front page story of a pretty highly regarded newspaper is an expose by someone we know has inside access it seems stupid to assume they have their facts wrong.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
