Strange to me that nobody is discussing the performance of the French riders here. Okay, we have seen in the past that Pinot, Rolland and Peraud can get a top 10, and Bardet is talented. But suddenly they're all (okay, not Rolland but he got 4th in the Giro) in the race for a Tour-podium.....
Okay, Froome, Contador, Quintana and Uran aren't racing (anymore) here, but still.... It is strange to me, very strange...
And today, the fact that even the French domestiques as Jeanesson and Gadret were outclimbing the non-French team leaders (Mollema, Van den Broeck, van Garderen, König, and others). Not by a bit, but by minutes. And yes, I know that these non-French riders aren't world class, but still...
To me this is getting kinda suspicious, the cyclisme a deux vitesses is still going on, but probably the French have joined the wrong group.
Your point is actually very good, I would much rather discuss that than Rogers.
If we take them from and end, Pinot has built his whole season up on Tour de France as many of the frenchies do. He has been troubled with some knee pain (?) in this season, but seems to be over. With what he showed in 2012, it shouldnt be categorized as suspicious by any means. Pinot is talented and this performance didnt come out of the air, allthough he was going very slowly in TdS. Maybe that was the plan?
Bardet is also talented as fck as you say, and then the guy has been going very well in some World Tour-races this year (I think Catalunya this year against the absolute elite). Again, thats not unexpected in this field. I had him actually tipped as 8th this year.
Peraud, like Bardet, has been riding great this year as well (look his spring season). Without the absolute elite (Froome, Contador, Quintana, Rodriguez) being in GC-contention, Peraud is where he should be, allthough I didnt expect him to be able to follow Nibali.
About the domestiques: I think that is relatively common in the Tour to see domestiques being up there as today as a result of them taking days off compared to the GC-contenders. What I saw today from Gadret was obviously great, but also something that I partly expected from him. I didnt know where Jeanneson came from, but its the last week. Stranger things have happened. Saw that with Intxausti today as well.
To me, it doesnt generally raise concern that the Frenchies, I feel like this is a combination of the absolutely best GC-riders not being here (apart from Niba) and France finally producing some climbers capable of actually following the best.
I didn't ask for a palmares of Rogers and I understand why Tinkoff-Saxo fans want to defend their riders. But Rogers was a promising rider, but when he moved away from T-Mobile his "talent" suddenly completely dissapeared. You've listed a bunch of anonymous results in minor races.
His reults lately have been strange too. When Contador crashes out and Rogers isn't in the GC how come he still rides in top 20 in recent mountain stages? It makes no sense, Why would he ride for secondary positions on every hard stage when he could sit back and restore energy? It looks like he isn't even riding full power while making it in before several favourites - because he had absolutely nothing to ride for in these stages. He just seems to have "too much stamina".
This shows me that you clearly only have irrational hate and its personally for you, are you really that butthurt over him leaving Sky?
I think one should have faith in the riders except when absurdly performances occur.
We can all agree that performances like Horners (last year in Vuelta), Froome's rise in 2011, Cobo's Vuelta win 2011 etc. were 'suspicous'. People who hasn't showed anything or at best, have obtained mediocre results suddenly appear to be worlds best should fall into the category "suspicous".
None of the performances this year have occured "suspicious" to me, not even the French. Stop the dope talk and get over it.
Present:
Tinkoff-Saxo - AG2R - Colombian riders
Past:
Francisco Mancebo - Illes balears - Carlos Sastre - Kelme - Robbie McEwen
I do not see French riders to be overpowered (Demarre is still very disappointing in sprint whereas Coquart is quite good but not awesome, Voeckler may not take the polka jersey over rodriguez and for the overall ranking, Bardet and Pinot may loose time on the last time trial. JC. Peraud is just as his last year performance. But as said by Riis123, this race lacks of Contador and Froome (+Cavendish for the sprint), while some good contenders are not here (Betancur, Uran, Wiggins and Quintana !).
Edited by sylvao on 22-07-2014 21:59
TimoCycling wrote:
Kruijswijk reaching his Giro 2011 form, 18th now, and Porte and Thomas in front of him who he is able to pass. Very good performance by him imo! Good to see him back in form.
Yeah. Funny to see on wielerflits (and other dutch sites) people are still a bit critical of Ten Dam, Kruijswijk but mainly Mollema. While actually, if you've been watching longer, like I have, having 3 dutch guys in the top 20 of the Tour is not exactly common.. In the years Armstrong there wasn't a dutch guy in the top 50 most of the time, and if it was, it was Boogerd.
Now there's 3 (!) dutch guys in the top 18.. Ofcourse none of them are world class, and none of these 3 have the potential of a Pinot or Bardet (arguably Mollema had at one point, but he seems to have hit his limit) .. but still. It's not all THAT bad
beagle wrote:
Regarding to miracle König´s descent skill, he said his former teammate Roger Kluge waited for him after Port de Balles and helped him a lot to chase Nibali´s group down before finish. Big respect to Kluge as well!!!
dienblad wrote:
Strange to me that nobody is discussing the performance of the French riders here. Okay, we have seen in the past that Pinot, Rolland and Peraud can get a top 10, and Bardet is talented. But suddenly they're all (okay, not Rolland but he got 4th in the Giro) in the race for a Tour-podium.....
Okay, Froome, Contador, Quintana and Uran aren't racing (anymore) here, but still.... It is strange to me, very strange...
And today, the fact that even the French domestiques as Jeanesson and Gadret were outclimbing the non-French team leaders (Mollema, Van den Broeck, van Garderen, König, and others). Not by a bit, but by minutes. And yes, I know that these non-French riders aren't world class, but still...
To me this is getting kinda suspicious, the cyclisme a deux vitesses is still going on, but probably the French have joined the wrong group.
As you said, there are like 3-5 riders that would be in front of them in "normal circumstances" like Froome, Contador, Quintana, Kreuziger, Purito.... So with them, it would be fight for 2nd part of top10, where some frenchies usually are.
But i agree this is kind of a revolution, as there are many of them. I like it somehow. Not sure about their dark sides, i confess i dont know anything about Bardet or Pinot before their WT teams careers. were they so good in juniors or U23 too?
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 23-07-2014 06:35
