Of course it's up to the riders, and I never said that length is the only factor. But it is a factor, and denying it, as you did, is ridiculous.
Well, we talked about mountain stages, the length doesn't really matter in those stages. Talking about Sanremo is something very different. The entertainment value on mountain stages doesn't care about the length, it's always the riders. Most of the time at least.
I do, it was some very good racing. Pointless very good racing though, because, as the stage was so short, even a team like Europcar could control it. That's the problem with short stages, they're way too easy to control for a strong team.
Well, I disagree. Voeckler sucked on that stage and short stages is not automatically easier to control. It all depends on the racing and what the riders do. If you have a strong team, you have a strong team. If you're having a strong team they can control on short and long stages.
It was the best GT of the year because the Tour and the Giro both sucked, and because Contador was off form, so he needed to attack countless times, eventually doing his great attack (in the longest mountain stage, btw). Calling it fantastic is a (very big) overstatement.
Well, obviously we find different things entertaining. I found this years Vuelta very entertaining, compared to every race, not just the Giro and the Tour. The whole season been pretty bad in my opinion, expect a few races and stages now and then. ANd I found the Vuelta quite fantastic, not as good as Giro 10, but still up there anyway.
The shortest stage in recent memory is, by far, the Blockhaus stage from the 2009 Giro and, as far as I remember, it was a pretty good stage. This should be even better, with a lot more climbs involved.
Johan92 wrote:
Well, we talked about mountain stages, the length doesn't really matter in those stages. Talking about Sanremo is something very different. The entertainment value on mountain stages doesn't care about the length, it's always the riders. Most of the time at least.
It matters just the same! Longer stage -> riders more tired -> the very same climb becomes harder and more selective. Of course, the riders attitude (and the stage design) are also very important factors, the riders being definitely the most important, but disregard all other factors makes no sense.
Johan92 wrote:
Well, I disagree. Voeckler sucked on that stage and short stages is not automatically easier to control. It all depends on the racing and what the riders do. If you have a strong team, you have a strong team. If you're having a strong team they can control on short and long stages.
But they are. Look back at cycling history and you'll find that it is easier to control short stages for the simple reason that domestiques are less tired. Of course, length must go with more climbing meters.
Johan92 wrote:
Well, obviously we find different things entertaining. I found this years Vuelta very entertaining, compared to every race, not just the Giro and the Tour. The whole season been pretty bad in my opinion, expect a few races and stages now and then. ANd I found the Vuelta quite fantastic, not as good as Giro 10, but still up there anyway.
It was entertaining, for like 5/10 minutes in many stages. That's good, but still not fantastic. The 2010 Giro was fantastic. Big difference between both races. As you said, the fact that stage racing has been severely below par this season has made people to incredibly overrate this Vuelta, when a quick comparison with previous races shows it hasn't been anywhere close to what many people say.
Still, we're going off topic here, and I realise it's mostly my fault. Better agree to disagree.
Britain will host a one day race in August on the same route as the 2012 Olympic road race. Not a WT though, so likely to be either 1.1. Canada gets a Tour of Alberta to slot in near the two one day races in Quebec in September. Australia adds a Tour of Western Australia. And Norway gets its Artic Tour, a new stage race owned by ASO.
2013 WT Calendar
Spoiler
2013 Calendar
22.01.2013 27.01.2013 Tour Down Under AUS
03.03.2013 10.03.2013 Paris – Nice FRA
06.03.2013 12.03.2013 Tirreno-Adriatico ITA
16.03.2013 16.03.2013 Milano-Sanremo ITA
18.03.2013 24.03.2013 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya ESP
Acquarone, joined on the podium by compatriot Giuseppe Perrone, the head of the Italian consulate in Los Angeles, spoke of the deepening relationship between the Giro d'Italia and the United States, highlighted by the Gran Fondo Giro d'Italia events in Los Angeles and Miami. When asked about the potential for the Italian Grand Tour to start in the US, however, Acquarone was cautiously pragmatic.
"It's not easy because first of all we can not have a rest day before five days now with the new rules," Acquarone told Cyclingnews. "I don't know if I can have the Giro d'Italia here for five days and then go to Italy - it's not so well-balanced.
"Then it's an incredible cost because you have to double all the costs. It's a lot, and that's one problem. The second problem, I haven't talked to the teams and I don't know what they think about such big jet lag at the beginning of a Grand Tour.
"I think it's a dream and it may always be a dream, but never say never."
This year the Giro started at it's furthest-ever distance from Italy in Denmark, which provided some inkling of what problems a trans-Atlantic transfer may entail.
"It was a big transfer but the teams understood that we had to do it," said Acquarone. "For the riders, in two hours they were in the hotel so for them it was ok. Some teams had two different [support] teams, one in Denmark and one in Italy so they didn't have to make the transfer, some others had to travel for 1,500km which is long. It's too much and I don't think we're going to do something like that any more."
From Aquarone's blog on CN
Seems the Giro is part of the Non-EU start crew along with the Tour
Although it does sound as though it wont be the Giro to lead the way
Also;
Why 2 chinese WT races? Beijing is shit and Hangzhou will be shitter...
And why still Pais Vasco and Catalunya?
More variety!!
Make AToC WT instead of the Chinese one's
and replace PV or Catal with a new Deutschland Tour!!!
@Alak
that was last month for UK. And it may not follow the Olympic route...
Like the sound of the new tours though
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Complain about having new races and complain about having old ones. Pais Vasco is a great race, much better than California.
more why do spain have 2 stage races thatn any races. I like them both, but why 2? and/or why 2 in spain and 2 in france and 2 in china?
If the UCI want to expand have one stage race in a country...
Its not really a WT, but a high level European Tour with a quick trip to Canada and Aus at either end of the season. And we wouldnt hve the TDU in the WT without Lance...
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Complain about having new races and complain about having old ones. Pais Vasco is a great race, much better than California.
more why do spain have 2 stage races thatn any races. I like them both, but why 2? and/or why 2 in spain and 2 in france and 2 in china?
If the UCI want to expand have one stage race in a country...
Its not really a WT, but a high level European Tour with a quick trip to Canada and Aus at either end of the season. And we wouldnt hve the TDU in the WT without Lance...
Do we have to lose a great race at the cost of probably short-lived expansion.
TheManxMissile wrote:
And why still Pais Vasco and Catalunya?
WTF did I just read?
Yeah, let's trash the 4th oldest stage race and the stage race of one of the most enthusiastic places in Europe about cycling. Sounds like a good idea.
Do we have to lose a great race at the cost of probably short-lived expansion.
Depends where the expansion is
The USA, and the UK are rapidly growing cycling nations.
An expansion to either would not be short lived.
The AToC already attracts great riders, so adding it would not take a lot of adjustment for teams. May need a shift in date to avoid the Giro. With full WT support there is great potential (more so than Beijing and Hangzhou).
The UK is a few years of a WT event though, but maybe only 1-2 from a one-day race, and only 5ish from a stage race.
Catalunya is hardly the most exciting of races. Perhaps combine the two in some way to make space for a new race.
I dont have an issue with the races, i would just like more of the world included in the World Tour ... or rename it to Pro Tour again, cause right now its lieing.
Acquarone, joined on the podium by compatriot Giuseppe Perrone, the head of the Italian consulate in Los Angeles, spoke of the deepening relationship between the Giro d'Italia and the United States, highlighted by the Gran Fondo Giro d'Italia events in Los Angeles and Miami. When asked about the potential for the Italian Grand Tour to start in the US, however, Acquarone was cautiously pragmatic.
"It's not easy because first of all we can not have a rest day before five days now with the new rules," Acquarone told Cyclingnews. "I don't know if I can have the Giro d'Italia here for five days and then go to Italy - it's not so well-balanced.
"Then it's an incredible cost because you have to double all the costs. It's a lot, and that's one problem. The second problem, I haven't talked to the teams and I don't know what they think about such big jet lag at the beginning of a Grand Tour.
"I think it's a dream and it may always be a dream, but never say never."
This year the Giro started at it's furthest-ever distance from Italy in Denmark, which provided some inkling of what problems a trans-Atlantic transfer may entail.
"It was a big transfer but the teams understood that we had to do it," said Acquarone. "For the riders, in two hours they were in the hotel so for them it was ok. Some teams had two different [support] teams, one in Denmark and one in Italy so they didn't have to make the transfer, some others had to travel for 1,500km which is long. It's too much and I don't think we're going to do something like that any more."
From Aquarone's blog on CN
Seems the Giro is part of the Non-EU start crew along with the Tour
Although it does sound as though it wont be the Giro to lead the way
Also;
Why 2 chinese WT races? Beijing is shit and Hangzhou will be shitter...
And why still Pais Vasco and Catalunya?
More variety!!
Make AToC WT instead of the Chinese one's
and replace PV or Catal with a new Deutschland Tour!!!
@Alak
that was last month for UK. And it may not follow the Olympic route...
Like the sound of the new tours though
Pais Vasco is one of the best races all year.... Its also a tune-up for the classics isn't it? Why would you get rid of two PT races in one of the strongest Cycling countries in the world?
You want more variety, yet you complain about the Chinese races? There are PT races in pretty much every major European country already.
And the Tour of California as SN said quite a while back, as a PT race, it wouldn't be able to have such a large amount of domestic teams racing, which is part of the attraction for the American Viewers.
I do think a Deutschland Tour would be great though.
That's why cycling has slowly evolved from 500km stages to the current situation, and it's why the trend is always towards shortening.
The reason for this is simple: To make an effort to drop others you can't be dead. You have to feel like you have energy to burn or you won't risk blowing up.
Longer stages increase the chances you'll blow up by making that effort, so riders simply don't make it.
Of course there are exceptions. There are long stages which are exciting, as with anything. But shorter stages are far more often better.
TheManxMissile wrote:
replace PV or Catal
That's about the worst idea i've ever seen in this forum. And i've seen some awful ones.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Dont get me wrong, i like PV and Catal...
I dont think Hangzhou is a good idea
Beijing was fine as a race in China is good (variety, expansion etc.)
Good point on AToC didnt think of that
Just seems that cycling is stuck in a bit of a rut, and clings to old traditions a bit too strongly
But i am right that the World Tour needs to have more races outside of Europe! Whether this means replacing current races or lengthening the calendar is a matter of opinion. I would suggest both. Replace some of the shit races (china) and lengthen the calendar with more races. Then make the races non-compulsory for WT teams... Feel i'm getting away from my actual point...
Ian Butler wrote:
I asked this before, but it still wasn't official, maybe it is now: will Contador receive points for the team and therefor will he race Beijing?
not according to current UCI rules (as far as im aware)
Ian Butler wrote:
I asked this before, but it still wasn't official, maybe it is now: will Contador receive points for the team and therefor will he race Beijing?
Unless UCI changes the rule, he wont. It's very likely that they will though, so he he could very well be participating.
