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News in February
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-02-2008 20:03
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If you want clean competition, watch amateur athletics with no sponsorhips and no professional level for competitors to work for. Anything else... you just have to expect that the vast majority are cheating as best they can. Do you really think amateurs don't cheat ? I don't. 
It's simply a human mentality to be ready to do anything to be the best, there's no need to have money involved for that (see the Eastern block athletes, communists thus money was dirty for them, yet they doped heavily). Fame can be enough to motivate them, or even winning, without getting famous, that's enough to take the step. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-02-2008 20:06
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
"can be". It's more a matter of interpreting them properly than to say that's not a trustable information.
Landis power in that stage didn't peak that high (yet it was abnormal), but, it was maintained at a high level during way too long to be trustable. You can't maintain your max power (that 410 W limit) for ever and ever. Which Landis sort of did.
I will have to show the transcript of the article but Allen Lim did contradict your statement. Allen said that Landis was able to maintain the wattage for an even longer period of time during training runs. Also realize that this is the same guy that Slipstream hired to monitor their wattages/training to detect any abnormalities so he has some credibility.
I am not saying that Landis did not dope. I am only saying that measuring wattages is not a "tell all, be all" indication of doping. Landis's performance that day was not necessarily superhuman based upon the wattages for a single day's performance. It was unusual compared to what he did the day before. And the fact that it took place during the third week of the tour. Well, I can't say Lim is wrong, as he is probably right in saying what he said. 
It's not wattages that are wrong, it's their interpretation and what you make them say that can be wrong.
It's harder to exploit the values on a whole stage to say if X is doped or not.
What can be said though, is on a climb hat's ridden at 100% at the end of a mountain stage, there we have trustable threshold values that can be quite easily compared to say if a performance is abnormal or not. Of course keep in mind that even heavily doped, I, and most people here, wouldn't go above such thresholds.
Edited by Aquarius on 15-02-2008 20:07
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 15-02-2008 20:52
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Domestique
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Totally agree, Aquarius.
On an unrelated front, Team High Road is back in the Giro!! Good news.
Edited by ABridgeTooFar on 15-02-2008 20:53
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 27-11-2024 18:07
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Bot Agent
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 15-02-2008 21:11
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Team Manager
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
Totally agree, Aquarius.
On an unrelated front, Team High Road is back in the Giro!! Good news.
Good news indeed, hopefully Wiggins and Cavendish will still ride it as planned then
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| issoisso |
Posted on 15-02-2008 21:20
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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good news 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 15-02-2008 21:35
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Aquarius wrote:
Do you really think amateurs don't cheat ? I don't.
It's simply a human mentality to be ready to do anything to be the best, there's no need to have money involved for that (see the Eastern block athletes, communists thus money was dirty for them, yet they doped heavily). Fame can be enough to motivate them, or even winning, without getting famous, that's enough to take the step.
I know amateurs cheat... I swam at a national level and it was always interesting how many people had athsma as swimmers. (inhalers to open up breathing pathways is one of the basic gateways toward doping in athletics). I'm a diabetic and I used to manipulate my blood sugar to a level that would give me an energy boost in the sprints as well (while not doping it's certainly questionable behavior). I also knew of several using many recreational drugs... and it wouldn't suprise me if some were using speed for an edge.
And this is kids less than 18 competing at the junior national level in a sport with virtually no professional prospects.
But I don't think there were any designer steroids, HGH or EPO-like products going around. I don't think the kind of MONEY being spent at the professional level is invested by amateurs. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 15-02-2008 21:36
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
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In a few days, Astana is back in TdF too |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 15-02-2008 21:39
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Tour de France Champion
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issoisso wrote:
good news
Yeaah..this is great. Good move for Giro.. |
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| alex153 |
Posted on 16-02-2008 13:54
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1396
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Several cyclists has been mentioned for doping in the following article:
https://www.oe24.a...235618.ece
list of persons, both cycling and others is:
* Georg Totschnig (österreichischer Radprofi)
* Christoph Suman (österreichischer Biathlet)
* Daniel Mesotitsch (österreichischer Biathlet)
* Ludwig Gredler (österreichischer Biathlet)
* Martin Pröll (Profi-Laufsportler)
* Katrin Apel (deutsche Biathletin)
* Martina Glagow (deutsche Biathletin)
* Andrea Henkel (deutsche Biahtletin)
* Sven Fischer (deutscher Biathlet)
* Michael Greis (deutscher Biathlet)
* Alexander Wolf (deutscher Biahtlet)
* Daniel Graf (deutscher Biatleht)
* Michael Rösch (deutscher Biathlet)
* Michael Rasmussen (niederländischer Radprofi)
* Denis Mentschow (niederländischer Radprofi)
* Michael Boogerd (niederländischer Radprofi)
* Joost Posthuma (niederländischer Radprofi)
* Pieter Weening (niederländischer Radprofi)
Since its an anonym sorce its doubtfull if its true though |
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| robert_psv |
Posted on 16-02-2008 16:43
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Breakaway Specialist
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This is already said before, now they say it wasn't true or something and apolygized...
Also the laboratory they said it was about, never even was in contact with any of the last 5.....
Team Champion manager
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 16-02-2008 17:08
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Grand Tour Champion
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Equally as disturbing the mentioning the cross-country skiiers Apell, Glagow and Fischer which are AFAIK some of the best cross-country skiiers in Germany.
Edited by Waghlon on 16-02-2008 17:41
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| alex153 |
Posted on 16-02-2008 17:38
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Protected Rider
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Waghlon wrote:
Equally as disturbing the mentioning the cross-country runners Apell, Glagow and Fischer which are AFAIK some of the best cross-country runners in Germany.
What has Apel, Glagow and Fischer to do with cross-country?...they are in Biathlon |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 16-02-2008 17:39
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Grand Tour Champion
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alex153 wrote:
What has Apel, Glagow and Fischer to do with cross-country?...they are in Biathlon
Its the same thing, 'cept with guns of course...
And i wrote runners, where i meant skiiers it strikes me.
Edited by Waghlon on 16-02-2008 17:40
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| alex153 |
Posted on 16-02-2008 17:42
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1396
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Waghlon wrote:
alex153 wrote:
What has Apel, Glagow and Fischer to do with cross-country?...they are in Biathlon
Its the same thing, 'cept with guns of course...
And i wrote runners, where i meat skiiers it strikes me.
Not the same thing...
very different sports |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 16-02-2008 18:12
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Tour de France Champion
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It's an old case, isn't it? The newspaper whcih wrote the article later excused and said they had no proof. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 16-02-2008 18:43
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Tour de France Champion
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Seems like something's going on. The police in Austria is actually investigating the case now. The police has received an anonymous notification which in detail describe how the mentioned athletes have received their "treatment".
By the way -- when did Menchov and Rasmussen become Dutch? |
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| robert_psv |
Posted on 16-02-2008 19:27
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Denis Mentschow?
Team Champion manager
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| issoisso |
Posted on 16-02-2008 20:02
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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alex153 wrote:
Biathlon
It's physically impossible for me to hear/read that word without laughing out loud at Robin Williams' stand up routine about biathlon
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| p3druh |
Posted on 16-02-2008 20:04
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2667
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issoisso wrote:
alex153 wrote:
Biathlon
It's physically impossible for me to hear/read that word without laughing out loud at Robin Williams' stand up routine about biathlon
link please...
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 16-02-2008 20:25
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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CrueTrue wrote:
It's an old case, isn't it? The newspaper whcih wrote the article later excused and said they had no proof. You mean they had to say that because they couldn't give proofs and reveal their source without putting it into deep trouble ? |
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