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Ideas for 2012
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 11-02-2011 04:18
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How about an omnium style stage race. or just a few one days lined up one after the other with an omium GC?
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 11-02-2011 11:27
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Levi4life wrote:
How about an omnium style stage race. or just a few one days lined up one after the other with an omium GC?
Could work as an additional 'Other Race' style addition. Not sure about actually having it as a ranking point scoring race.
It could either work as consecutive one days, or a stage race - with time gaps setting set to some very high value - to ensure all get given the same time at the finish, and then time bonuses awarded to all riders, at 1 second intervals.
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| Kami |
Posted on 16-02-2011 11:27
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Classics Specialist
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Continuing from the Vattenfall thread:
Just played LBL without interacting. Everything came togheter with about 30km. Small pack of about 50 riders left. Then on the Roche Aux Faucons (hill before the penultimate hill), A. Schleck and Gilbert attacked. They get away. Other riders that attacked (F. Schleck, Kolobnev, ...) couldn't get away, not even a gap. They just kept attacking next to the rider who was doing the pace in the peleton.
Later, Gilbert and A. Schleck got caught aswell under this insane pace. On St. Niclolas, Gilbert attacked again, the first rider to counter was F. Schleck, but he was attacking and even losing places in the peleton. Other riders who were just riding were faster then him.
So Gilbert got a gap for the sprint. In the pack A. Schleck was in best position and immediatly opened a gap to the pack in the sprint, he could have caught Gilbert. But Schleck just stopped sprinting and restarted when the pack was back at his wheel to just blow away again then.
All by all, the results were realistic, but the way it went wasn't realistic.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 16-02-2011 11:31
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They just kept attacking next to the rider who was doing the pace in the peleton.
Later, Gilbert and A. Schleck got caught aswell under this insane pace. On St. Niclolas, Gilbert attacked again, the first rider to counter was F. Schleck, but he was attacking and even losing places in the peleton. Other riders who were just riding were faster then him.
That sort of thing is definately an issue
So Gilbert got a gap for the sprint. In the pack A. Schleck was in best position and immediatly opened a gap to the pack in the sprint, he could have caught Gilbert. But Schleck just stopped sprinting and restarted when the pack was back at his wheel to just blow away again then..
But that happens in all PCMs
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 16-02-2011 11:39
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All by all, the results were realistic, but the way it went wasn't realistic.
As long as this happens it doesn't matter that much.
Out of interest, were you using Roturn's stage?
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Kami |
Posted on 16-02-2011 11:46
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Out of interest, were you using Roturn's stage?
Don't think so, using the one that was in the ASO DB.
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 16-02-2011 11:53
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Tour de France Champion
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You should be using Roturn's, though  |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 00:11
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| Smowz |
Posted on 16-02-2011 12:25
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Here is a result from Paris Roubaix from pcm10 that I raced as a control:
Spoiler Rank Name Team Time
1 Tom Boonen Quick·Step 6h34'51
2 Juan Antonio Flecha Sky Professional Cycling Team + 1'02
3 Thor Hushovd Cervélo Test Team s.t.
4 Fabian Cancellara Team Saxo Bank s.t.
5 Filippo Pozzato Team Katusha + 1'42
6 Stijn Devolder Quick·Step s.t.
7 Alessandro Ballan BMC Racing Team s.t.
8 Johan Van Summeren Garmin - Transitions + 2'14
9 Nick Nuyens Rabobank s.t.
10 Wouter Weylandt Quick·Step s.t.
11 Leif Hoste Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
12 Heinrich Haussler Cervélo Test Team s.t.
13 Martijn Maaskant Garmin - Transitions s.t.
14 Manuel Quinziato Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
15 George Hincapie BMC Racing Team + 3'42
16 Martin Elmiger AG2R La Mondiale s.t.
17 Tyler Farrar Garmin - Transitions s.t.
18 Hayden Roulston Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
19 Lars Ytting Bak Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
20 Bernhard Eisel Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
21 Marcus Burghardt BMC Racing Team s.t.
22 Sylvain Chavanel Quick·Step s.t.
23 Matti Breschel Team Saxo Bank s.t.
24 Geraint Thomas Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
25 Stuart O'Grady Team Saxo Bank s.t.
26 Frédéric Guesdon Française des Jeux s.t.
27 Edvald Boasson Hagen Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
28 Kurt-Asle Arvesen Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
29 Steve Chainel Bbox Bouygues Télécom s.t.
30 Sebastian Langeveld Rabobank + 4'46
31 Gert Steegmans Team RadioShack s.t.
32 Niki Terpstra Team Milram + 6'06
33 Aleksandr Kuschynski Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
34 Maxim Iglinskiy Astana s.t.
35 Grega Bole Lampre - Farnese Vini s.t.
36 Andreas Klier Cervélo Test Team s.t.
37 Frederik Willems Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
38 Guillaume Blot Cofidis, le crédit en ligne s.t.
39 Lars Boom Rabobank s.t.
40 Assan Bazayev Astana s.t.
41 Wilfried Cretskens Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
42 Greg Van Avermaet Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
43 Murilo Fischer Garmin - Transitions s.t.
44 Staf Scheirlinckx Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
45 Sébastien Hinault AG2R La Mondiale s.t.
46 Servais Knaven Team Milram s.t.
47 Kevin Van Impe Quick·Step s.t.
48 Maarten Tjallingii Rabobank s.t.
49 Kevin Hulsmans Quick·Step s.t.
50 David Millar Garmin - Transitions s.t.
51 Matthew Goss Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
52 Xavier Florencio Cervélo Test Team s.t.
53 Frank Høj Team Saxo Bank s.t.
54 Ian Stannard Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
55 Maarten Wynants Quick·Step s.t.
56 Baden Cooke Team Saxo Bank + 7'50
57 Daniel Oss Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
58 Kasper Klostergaard Team Saxo Bank s.t.
59 Grégory Rast Team RadioShack + 9'18
60 Tomas Vaitkus Team RadioShack s.t.
and RvV:
Spoiler Rank Name Team Time
1 Tom Boonen Quick·Step 6h31'47
2 Gert Steegmans Team RadioShack + 29
3 Fabian Cancellara Team Saxo Bank s.t.
4 Heinrich Haussler Cervélo Test Team s.t.
5 Juan Antonio Flecha Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
6 Edvald Boasson Hagen Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
7 Thor Hushovd Cervélo Test Team s.t.
8 Björn Leukemans Vacansoleil Pro Cycling Team s.t.
9 Filippo Pozzato Team Katusha s.t.
10 Wouter Weylandt Quick·Step s.t.
11 Kurt-Asle Arvesen Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
12 Matti Breschel Team Saxo Bank s.t.
13 Sebastian Langeveld Rabobank s.t.
14 Leif Hoste Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
15 Stuart O'Grady Team Saxo Bank s.t.
16 Martin Elmiger AG2R La Mondiale s.t.
17 Philippe Gilbert Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
18 Lars Ytting Bak Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
19 Manuel Quinziato Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
20 Daniele Bennati Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
21 Bernhard Eisel Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
22 Niki Terpstra Team Milram s.t.
23 Nick Nuyens Rabobank s.t.
24 Stijn Devolder Quick·Step s.t.
25 Alessandro Ballan BMC Racing Team s.t.
26 Johan Van Summeren Garmin - Transitions s.t.
27 Andreas Klier Cervélo Test Team s.t.
28 Karsten Kroon BMC Racing Team s.t.
29 Baden Cooke Team Saxo Bank s.t.
30 Domenik Klemme Team Saxo Bank s.t.
31 Tyler Farrar Garmin - Transitions + 2'08
32 Marcus Burghardt BMC Racing Team s.t.
33 Maxim Iglinskiy Astana s.t.
34 Hayden Roulston Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
35 Greg Van Avermaet Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
36 Staf Scheirlinckx Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
37 Bert Grabsch Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
38 Geraint Thomas Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
39 Jürgen Roelandts Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
40 Maarten Wynants Quick·Step s.t.
41 Kevin Hulsmans Quick·Step s.t.
42 Kasper Klostergaard Team Saxo Bank s.t.
43 Kurt Hovelynck Quick·Step + 2'48
44 Danilo Hondo Lampre - Farnese Vini s.t.
45 Sébastien Rosseler Team RadioShack s.t.
46 Joost Posthuma Rabobank s.t.
47 Alberto Ongarato Vacansoleil Pro Cycling Team + 3'28
48 Frank Høj Team Saxo Bank s.t.
49 Sylvain Chavanel Quick·Step + 3'52
50 George Hincapie BMC Racing Team + 4'16
51 Daniel Lloyd Cervélo Test Team s.t.
52 Allan Davis Astana s.t.
53 Dominique Rollin Cervélo Test Team s.t.
54 Murilo Fischer Garmin - Transitions s.t.
55 Sergueï Ivanov Team Katusha s.t.
56 Dimitriy Muravyev Team RadioShack s.t.
57 Frederik Willems Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
58 Frédéric Guesdon Française des Jeux s.t.
59 Martijn Maaskant Garmin - Transitions s.t.
60 Sébastien Hinault AG2R La Mondiale s.t
You will notice that Flanders has more large groups - Gent Wegulum could well end up in a sprint or riders that survive cobbles. Riders like Steegmans, Pozzato or even Farrar become more valuable for races like these.
I think Kami's problem needs investigating though - I have been trying to recreate it - but I am not quite getting in a race what he describes. But it is the biggest worry as is the sprints - are they any better in pcm 2010?
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| Smowz |
Posted on 18-02-2011 07:05
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Team Leader
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I couple of ideas I had wirring around which were triggered by the transfer talk reminder.
1) If we want money to become more important, how about banning rider swaps? This means the only way to get a pre-contracted rider from another squad is to pay money for him.
2) All Loans only available for riders not on full exp. I am not sure I understand the reason behind other loans other than as some sort of big brother - little brother type of arrangement.
Just putting these out there for discussion!
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 18-02-2011 08:32
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1) No. And besides very easy to get away. Team X wants to swap Rider A with Rider B from Team Y. So Team X buys Rider B for 500k, and Team Y buys Rider A for 500k.
2) An example of mine. I have Mwangi Samwel, I bought him a couple of season ago, he maxxed up, but I couldnt afford to keep him on my salary cap. Rather than sell him, the loans provide an option for me to keep ownership, and if renewals work out, have him on my own squad next season
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| Smowz |
Posted on 18-02-2011 08:46
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1) True. It is very easy to get around - but at least then there is a tangible valuation.
Personally I actually like the strategum of rider swaps - but I worry it is open to abuse and devalues the Man Game dollar!
2) Seems to me that it is careless to ever go over your salary cap during transfer season. I am not sure that you deserved to 'retain ownership' of Mbanwi Samwel, the other option is to sell to someone at a cut price makes more sense to me.
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 18-02-2011 10:13
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Ok how about this, should I fail to promote, I probably won't be able to afford Madrazo. Should I be forced to sell him after spending plenty of money developing him, rather than just loaning him for a year.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Naustratze |
Posted on 18-02-2011 10:41
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Amateur
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Over the next years i would like to see: Personality+ and Be a Pro, many have seen these things in FIFA 2010-2011, i think those ideers would be very nice in PCM too. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 18-02-2011 10:43
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
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... for the Management Game? |
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| Smowz |
Posted on 18-02-2011 11:36
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Mb and SN: It seems to me you have both (I notice Lipton Iced Tea did this as well) have found a way to 'cheat' the wage cap a bit here.
Bimbo Nutella are the poster boys this year for this little loophole. They have Samwell, Rodrigues and Camano on their books (all for fairly meagre wages I might add) all three loaned in from Protour teams. This avoided for them having to pay market prices for these riders and also encourages some behind the doors cliquey type of behaviour.
The 'I only deal with players I like' was meant in some part jest I am sure - but it is for me a slight issue with the swapping and loaning riders.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 18-02-2011 11:59
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Cheating the system? No, its using the loans system.
It was Bimbo's choice to go down the route of loaning in riders - in the long term it makes it harder for them this year. Its a perfectly valid stategy though - Santander used it well in their first season. Its simply an alternate strategy available for new teams.
I dont see the problem in not wanting to lose a rider Id taken time to get maxxed, not after a certain person's campaign to make me pay more for Uran.
And fairly meagre wage? For the rider Samwel is, 200kish is a good wage. He's a pure climber, not a stage racer.
I see your point about deals being closed between friends or those of the same nationality. But theres 24 hours after a deal is confirmed for others to make a bid, and if a notably higher additional bid is rejected, then inquiries can be made as to why - it shouldnt be the case that simply because you agreed a deal with X first, its only fair to keep that deal, and ignore a much better offer from Y. (Although it would have to be a much better offer, if a deal has been made, and you want to break that deal up and get the rider involved instead, you should be making a much better offer - not simply adding another 50k or whatever)
Edited by SportingNonsense on 18-02-2011 12:00
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 18-02-2011 12:23
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Cheating the system? No, its using the loans system.
It was Bimbo's choice to go down the route of loaning in riders - in the long term it makes it harder for them this year. Its a perfectly valid stategy though - Santander used it well in their first season. Its simply an alternate strategy available for new teams.
I dont see the problem in not wanting to lose a rider Id taken time to get maxxed, not after a certain person's campaign to make me pay more for Uran.
And fairly meagre wage? For the rider Samwel is, 200kish is a good wage. He's a pure climber, not a stage racer.
I see your point about deals being closed between friends or those of the same nationality. But theres 24 hours after a deal is confirmed for others to make a bid, and if a notably higher additional bid is rejected, then inquiries can be made as to why - it shouldnt be the case that simply because you agreed a deal with X first, its only fair to keep that deal, and ignore a much better offer from Y. (Although it would have to be a much better offer, if a deal has been made, and you want to break that deal up and get the rider involved instead, you should be making a much better offer - not simply adding another 50k or whatever)
On your last point there, I disagree wholeheartedly. I completely and utterly will NOT trade with certain people. Those people being all new recruits, Waghlon (depending on my, and his, mood), SotD, and, I think it was, setzel. If they came in and bid a massive amount on a transfer I was happy with, why should I HAVE to change? Once I've agreed on a transfer, I very very very rarely back down. I feel it's unfair on the manager I have agreed it with. SN, you got that treatment this past season. Wacko came in late and offered over 1 million for Stannard and Kennaugh, did I change my deal with you? No. I don't much people around, it's the way I work, and always will do.
On the loans aspect, I don't see the problem with using the system to it's full advantage. It's there as it is, and call it abuse if you will, and it can be used to it's maximum. Everyone is aware of it, so if you know it's there, use it. I've used it every single season I've played. Sometimes to maximise riders, as well as make space for other riders, and sometimes just to forge a link with another team. |
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| Smowz |
Posted on 18-02-2011 12:28
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I agree Bimbo Nutella played it smart - smarter than I, they were good little loan signings. It was a good idea and may well get them extra money through completion of goals next year.
There was a massive inflation for free agents with a high mountain stat in the last transfer window - 200,000 wages for Samwel seems a steal to me!
Dan Craven and Bernie Eisal were good little signings by pangare as well.
What concerns me though is some of these nationalistic teams like Santander horde ownership rights of a number of riders. If they don't want to lose the rider fine, keep the guy and race him under the colours of Santander. Got too many riders for your wage cap - sell him you can still enjoy the riders results!
It is probably nothing though as I know teams are at least restricted to keeping their wage under the wage cap for the contracts and also of course by the end of the frantic transfer season. If they do get caught with their pants down (aka over the limit) then they are punished heavily!
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 18-02-2011 12:30
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
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Yeah I respect you keeping your word rjc, but i find it irrational not to deal at all with new recruits - that's not a case of not allowing anyone a second chance, that's no opportunity at all.
In the loans aspect i don't see the problem - the team that get the rider get him at a fair wage without having to pay transfer money/end up in a bidding war while the others retain him for the following year. It's an unstable way of building a team but it makes for an interesting game. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 18-02-2011 12:35
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World Champion
Posts: 12188
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Haha seems I've got me some "enemies" 
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