Aquarius wrote:
Well, as a cyclist, or former cyclist, it's just natural that I'm jealous at him, my ultimate goal was to win several TDF. looks like I didn't manage. Nevermind, there are other ways for me to be pleased with my life.

He only trains for the TDF and I hate him for that ? I don't care, I liked LeMond, Ullrich (despite the dope), etc. They were TDF specialists, in his later years for LeMond, all his career long for Ullrich.
So how does that apply to Armstrong ? I don't understand.

Why I hate Armstrong ? Saying I hate him would mean that I really care about him, which I simply don't. He might win millions, or be stabbed to death, I couldn't care.

Though, if you want some actual reasons...

- He made TDF boring and predictable.
- He behaves like he's the boss wherever he is. Sorry, but which legitimacy does he have for that ? Merckx or Hinault had, they won plenty of races, including the biggest ones, all year long, season after season. Armstrong ? TDF specialist, random rider on a couple of other races. Hardly legitimate.
- He's protected by a bunch of corrupt people. Hein Verbrugghen, Pat McQuaid and all their glorious company. "Give me money, I'll clear your reports. We need you to promote cycling in the world, cheat as much as you want, we'll save your ass." If you've got any sense of justice you should find this disgusting.
- He is or was "prepared" by people publicly known for helping riders to dope. Michele Ferrari if that rings a bell to you. Knows crap about cycling, but is a famous haematologist, top EPO-specialist in his days. A little suspicious, eh ?
- He was caught with corticoids in 1999, but was allowed, against all laws, to produce a certificate for that after his control was published. The certificate was most likely antidated.
- 1999 again, six samples from six different TDF stages. 3 methods used on each of them in 2005. 18 positives test for EPO. He didn't sue the lab, despite enough substance to perform both ADN tests and other EPO tests on them.
- 2005, after the former was revealed, for no particular reason (or so he says) he made another huge check to the UCI. He was cleared of charges by a laughable report.
- 2001. If we trust Landis stories, he was caught positive for EPO again, at the Tour de Suisse. He made a check (he admitted the check) to UCI, and we never heard about the control again before this year.
- He changed his opinion several times about many things (yet he doesn't mind bashing Landis for changing his opinion once) : the fact he used EPO to cure himself from his cancer, the fact he was allowed special PED after starting his second career, as a treatment for his cancer, the fact he has never make a check to the UCI, but remembers one when it's found by accountancy (and investigators), and remembers a second one.
- He sacked his home domestic because he had noticed steroids in his Spanish house.
- He moved from France to Spain, where at the times the authorities didn't mind much about doping.
- I was about to forget that one. When Landis learnt him he'd leave the team, he got mad at him, like betrayed. Can't anyone leave his team without it being a betrayal ? You've got to be paranoid. As a consequence he emptied Landis 3rd week blood bag in the toilets, so Landis didn't get his last blood refill that year.
- He is out to destroy anyone whose opinion about him doesn't go along his. Yet he often changes his own opinion, so whatever one's opinion might be about him, it's likely to not please him any more some day.
- He's trying to dirt LeMond with doping crap. No one who has known LeMond as a rider has anything to reproach him about it. No one. Yet L.A. is ready to pay people to claim the opposite. Ask Andreu...
- He has very likely made his cancer look worst than it actually was (I'm not wishing to have one, even one like he really had to anyone though)... The number of people surviving such a cancer is quite high, that doesn't make him such an " extreme survivor" guy.
- He's acting like a P.R. guy in his fight for cancer, trying to look good. Giving to charity, I count cancer fight as one, is a very good thing. But using that for ego purposes ? He's just a cold blood, megalomaniac business man. His come back was more led by that than by his passion for cycling...
- There's a long, long, long list of other stuff, but I can't spend the whole afternoon writing about it.

Grow up and open your eyes... That'll hurt you less when his business will collapse.

As Jay himself said: "This conversation's not going anywhere."

You can't argue with fanboys

CrueTrue wrote:
As Jay himself said: "This conversation's not going anywhere."

You can't argue with fanboys

ABridgeTooFar wrote:


Actually, some fanboys can have some solid discussions. I won't go there except to say a bit about the cancer comments. Say all you want about the doping allegations but you crossed a line with the cancer comments. You obviously never had any close encounters with it. Anyone who has would never accuse another of using cancer to their advantage. Totally un-called for. So consider me a cancer fanboy.

Aquarius wrote:
But can't you do a difference between a charity that fights against cancer, and the despicable man who's leading it ?

Not caring about what I say is your right, but don't come up with "he's a nice guy story", especially if you want to despise Contador.

That behaviour reminds me of that :

Refuses to see anything wrong, thus not only assumes, but decides there's nothing wrong.
I don't dare writing my deep thoughts about that...

ABridgeTooFar wrote:
Say all you want about the doping allegations but you crossed a line with the cancer comments. You obviously never had any close encounters with it. Anyone who has would never accuse another of using cancer to their advantage. Totally un-called for. So consider me a cancer fanboy.

JayTheKid wrote:
and i didn't say "don't argue with me". i ment to say that you can say whatever you want, i just don't care about that. my idea of him wont change. i don't care if he turns to be some mafioso or a drug dealer. i will always use the livestrong wristband and period. i'm not in the community to get enemmies as i said.

Aquarius wrote:
Still : it's a very good thing to fight cancer. It's very good to give to charity. I don't wish anyone to get a cancer, with a good healing rate or not.

Waghlon wrote:



So why are you even posting here if you dont care? Surely you got better things to do than hanging around here?


And before you cleverly retort "and what are you doing here then?": Im on a lunchbreak.

ruben wrote:
Actually, I feel for all cancer patients out there who trust in Lance and see him as an example.
How do they have to continue their fight against cancer when it's out in the open that Lance is a liar and a cheat?

And do not tell me I know nothing of cancer or the fight against it because my grandfather died of it and several family members survived, different forms, of cancer. I've withnessed what that illness does and I support the fight against cancer. But not Lance Armstrong
That guy is disgrace.

ruben wrote:
Actually, I feel for all cancer patients out there who trust in Lance and see him as an example.
How do they have to continue their fight against cancer when it's out in the open that Lance is a liar and a cheat?

And do not tell me I know nothing of cancer or the fight against it because my grandfather died of it and several family members survived, different forms, of cancer. I've withnessed what that illness does and I support the fight against cancer. But not Lance Armstrong
That guy is disgrace.

fightinchicken26 wrote:
You could say the ends justify the means in regards to Livestrong. Although it would be horrible if Armstrong were proven to have doped and frauded millions of people, I do not think you can argue the world would've been better if Lance had not come back to win 7TdFs if you also support the fight against cancer. The Tour is just a race. I am not saying it makes what Lance would've done okay, but to call him a "disgrace" is way too far in my book. Unless you are willing to personally call out the many other Tour winners/successes for doing the same thing.

Also, are you actually a fan of Thomas Dekker...?

The Irish rider was disappointed by teammate John Gadret’s failure to wait for him when he punctured on the Port de Bales climb on stage 15 of the Tour but Roche has nonetheless developed into a leader in his two seasons at Ag2r since arriving from Credit Agricole. He was keen to reiterate this status at the end of the Tour, making a gift of a watch to each of his teammates in thanks for their help over the course of the three weeks.

Roche revealed the gesture in his column in the Irish Independent. “To mark my first Tour as a team leader and to thank all of the riders on the team I bought the riders and my manager Vincent a Festina Tour edition watch and when we had a quiet minute on the bus after the stage, I gave them one each,� Roche explained.

“I realise that all of the guys put their personal goals to one side for three weeks to try and help me do the best I can and it was just a small gesture to show that I really appreciate all they did for me.�