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News in February
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| roadie |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:01
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Neo-Pro
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@Crommy, well an even system of distribution would work. Organised chaos. 20 viles of EPO for each team per season. If you run out, then tough luck!!! |
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| rodda |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:12
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Small Tour Specialist
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haha but would they only be allowed to use EPO wat about the ther doping methods
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| roadie |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:15
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Neo-Pro
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Fully sanctioned EPO use. We'd be back at square 1 if teams chose to use alternatives. But Im pretty sure a lot of their rosters would be reduced with the number of heart related failures.. |
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| stuartmcstuart |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:26
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Sprinter
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plus, teams would get their hands on more EPO. Drugs are a bad idea all round in sport. Compete clean or don't compete at all. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:27
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Grand Tour Specialist
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roadie wrote:
@Crommy, well an even system of distribution would work. Organised chaos. 20 viles of EPO for each team per season. If you run out, then tough luck!!! They can already get EPO though it's illegal. Allow them 20, if they feel they need 200 they'll get 20 legal ones and 180 illegal ones, just like they now get 200 illegal ones if they need it. |
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| rodda |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:27
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Small Tour Specialist
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stuartmcstuart wrote:
plus, teams would get their hands on more EPO. Drugs are a bad idea all round in sport. Compete clean or don't compete at all.
indeed 
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| roadie |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:31
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Neo-Pro
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I disagree..Thats a puritans view of life, This isnt what life is like today. I say sanction drug use in all professional sports. They're all doing it anyway..so why not. Very few are playing by the rules these days. Effected sports, Baseball, NFL, NHL, Soccer, Swimming, Weight Lifting, Rugby, Athletics, Cycling.... |
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| stuartmcstuart |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:41
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Sprinter
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But what good is that going to do?
1) by sanctioning it, sport will become even more of a drugs race for the "best stuff" than it already is.
2) With no rules on limits or whats taken, new substances will be created that could be even more dangerous for an athletes long term health than ones currently offered
3) The whole point of watching sport is watching the best atheletes excel at their chosen discipline on natural talent, not watching to see who reacts to drugs best
4) If sport is to continue as a spectator sport, then most fans need to see atheletes they can believe in: for example, when I look at a cyclist, I want to be able to say the only difference between him and me is weight, fitness and talent (or determination). I'm not interested personally in watching atheletes competing well because they got good "contacts"
5) Why should atheletes, who don't want to **** up their bodies for professional sport, be forced to compete against those that take anything at any risk to win |
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| roadie |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:43
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Right and these so called "best athletes.." as you call them are generally proven to have taken drugs at 1 point or another. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 27-11-2024 18:57
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| stuartmcstuart |
Posted on 15-02-2008 14:52
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Sprinter
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When I say 'best atheletes', I mean anyone competing at the top level of any sport. And yes, there are some who haven't taken drugs
Here are some British examples from notoriously 'dodgy' sports
Cycling: Cavendish, Wiggins, Thomas, Bellis, Hoy,
Athletics: Holmes, Edwards, Campbell
I didn't even need a second to name these guys, and thats not all people who compete clean from a single country
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| roadie |
Posted on 15-02-2008 15:02
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Well I can further that and say off the top of my head...
Athletics, Carl Lewis, Ben Johnson, Green, Christie, Powell, the entire US womens relay team, the entire mens relay team. Marion Jones, and many other US track stars too numerous to name
Cycling; Landis, Vinikourov etc etc etc
MLB; Clemens, Maguire etc etc
NHL; many
Australian Rules; Cousins, Abblett,
Rugby League, too many to name
Swimming, the entire Chinese womens team
and it goes on and on |
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 15-02-2008 15:20
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Domestique
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[b]Aquarius wrote:
"can be". It's more a matter of interpreting them properly than to say that's not a trustable information.
Landis power in that stage didn't peak that high (yet it was abnormal), but, it was maintained at a high level during way too long to be trustable. You can't maintain your max power (that 410 W limit) for ever and ever. Which Landis sort of did.
I will have to show the transcript of the article but Allen Lim did contradict your statement. Allen said that Landis was able to maintain the wattage for an even longer period of time during training runs. Also realize that this is the same guy that Slipstream hired to monitor their wattages/training to detect any abnormalities so he has some credibility.
I am not saying that Landis did not dope. I am only saying that measuring wattages is not a "tell all, be all" indication of doping. Landis's performance that day was not necessarily superhuman based upon the wattages for a single day's performance. It was unusual compared to what he did the day before. And the fact that it took place during the third week of the tour.
Edited by ABridgeTooFar on 15-02-2008 15:20
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| Crommy |
Posted on 15-02-2008 16:29
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World Champion
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roadie wrote:
Fully sanctioned EPO use. We'd be back at square 1 if teams chose to use alternatives. But Im pretty sure a lot of their rosters would be reduced with the number of heart related failures..
I completely disagree - it would not discourage drug use, but encourage it, then you see more drug use, more athletes destroying there bodies, and inevitably, you will get deaths - you cannot expect riders to sacrifice there health for success, and you never should.
I'm just repeating what I keep on saying, but I feel so strongly on it - you just can't have drugs in sport.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 15-02-2008 16:45
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Tour de France Champion
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Crommy wrote:
roadie wrote:
Fully sanctioned EPO use. We'd be back at square 1 if teams chose to use alternatives. But Im pretty sure a lot of their rosters would be reduced with the number of heart related failures..
I completely disagree - it would not discourage drug use, but encourage it, then you see more drug use, more athletes destroying there bodies, and inevitably, you will get deaths - you cannot expect riders to sacrifice there health for success, and you never should.
I'm just repeating what I keep on saying, but I feel so strongly on it - you just can't have drugs in sport.
did you see them stop in the late eighties when EPO was new and a risk? nope, everyone used it.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Valor |
Posted on 15-02-2008 17:13
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Domestique
Posts: 532
Joined: 24-04-2007
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Does anybody know how to watch track world cup in ballerup live on internet?: |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 15-02-2008 18:33
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 997
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stuartmcstuart wrote:
When I say 'best atheletes', I mean anyone competing at the top level of any sport. And yes, there are some who haven't taken drugs
Here are some British examples from notoriously 'dodgy' sports
Cycling: Cavendish, Wiggins, Thomas, Bellis, Hoy,
Athletics: Holmes, Edwards, Campbell
I didn't even need a second to name these guys, and thats not all people who compete clean from a single country
I'd wager half of them have used performance enhancing drugs at some point in their career. The other half are too young to have done so yet and will likely do so at some point in the future.
You are assuming because there are no rumors that these guys are clean. There were a lot of players caught by baseball when they went to their new drug testing policy who were not thought of as dopers.
You have two classes who cheat in professional sports. Those who are near the top who want the boost to become the best... and those who are barely hanging on that need the boost to keep a job (included in this are many older atheletes). In baseball at least, it's looking like a much higher percentage of the dopers are from the latter group.
I really don't believe any professional sport is even remotely clean any more. When money is involved and your livlihood is at risk, people will do ANYTHING to keep their job. It's not about purity of competition or the entertainment of the fans... it's about taking care of your family.
If you want clean competition, watch amateur athletics with no sponsorhips and no professional level for competitors to work for. Anything else... you just have to expect that the vast majority are cheating as best they can. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 15-02-2008 18:59
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
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KurtinSC wrote:
stuartmcstuart wrote:
When I say 'best atheletes', I mean anyone competing at the top level of any sport. And yes, there are some who haven't taken drugs
Here are some British examples from notoriously 'dodgy' sports
Cycling: Cavendish, Wiggins, Thomas, Bellis, Hoy,
Athletics: Holmes, Edwards, Campbell
I didn't even need a second to name these guys, and thats not all people who compete clean from a single country
I'd wager half of them have used performance enhancing drugs at some point in their career. The other half are too young to have done so yet and will likely do so at some point in the future.
You are assuming because there are no rumors that these guys are clean. There were a lot of players caught by baseball when they went to their new drug testing policy who were not thought of as dopers.
You have two classes who cheat in professional sports. Those who are near the top who want the boost to become the best... and those who are barely hanging on that need the boost to keep a job (included in this are many older atheletes). In baseball at least, it's looking like a much higher percentage of the dopers are from the latter group.
I really don't believe any professional sport is even remotely clean any more. When money is involved and your livlihood is at risk, people will do ANYTHING to keep their job. It's not about purity of competition or the entertainment of the fans... it's about taking care of your family.
If you want clean competition, watch amateur athletics with no sponsorhips and no professional level for competitors to work for. Anything else... you just have to expect that the vast majority are cheating as best they can.
I can only second that. I completely agree - I just couldn't express it well enough myself. |
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| robert_psv |
Posted on 15-02-2008 19:31
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 904
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CrueTrue wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
stuartmcstuart wrote:
When I say 'best atheletes', I mean anyone competing at the top level of any sport. And yes, there are some who haven't taken drugs
Here are some British examples from notoriously 'dodgy' sports
Cycling: Cavendish, Wiggins, Thomas, Bellis, Hoy,
Athletics: Holmes, Edwards, Campbell
I didn't even need a second to name these guys, and thats not all people who compete clean from a single country
I'd wager half of them have used performance enhancing drugs at some point in their career. The other half are too young to have done so yet and will likely do so at some point in the future.
You are assuming because there are no rumors that these guys are clean. There were a lot of players caught by baseball when they went to their new drug testing policy who were not thought of as dopers.
You have two classes who cheat in professional sports. Those who are near the top who want the boost to become the best... and those who are barely hanging on that need the boost to keep a job (included in this are many older atheletes). In baseball at least, it's looking like a much higher percentage of the dopers are from the latter group.
I really don't believe any professional sport is even remotely clean any more. When money is involved and your livlihood is at risk, people will do ANYTHING to keep their job. It's not about purity of competition or the entertainment of the fans... it's about taking care of your family.
If you want clean competition, watch amateur athletics with no sponsorhips and no professional level for competitors to work for. Anything else... you just have to expect that the vast majority are cheating as best they can.
I can only second that. I completely agree - I just couldn't express it well enough myself.
People often say Cycling is only about Doping and stuff... But I think it's because cycling is also the sport where there are the most Doping tests and that there are enough sports where sporters use just as many dope as in cycling..
Team Champion manager
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| Crommy |
Posted on 15-02-2008 19:38
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World Champion
Posts: 10018
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issoisso wrote:
did you see them stop in the late eighties when EPO was new and a risk? nope, everyone used it.
I'm not doubting that a lot of athletes do drugs willingly. Which is a big problem. The whole attitude in all sports is corrupt. And the only way to combat it is to have extremely tough punishments on drug users, more stringent tests etc.
Basically, I'm just inviting everyone to rip my argument to pieces, because I always turn out to be wrong 
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| Valor |
Posted on 15-02-2008 19:54
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Domestique
Posts: 532
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We've got Team High Road back in Giro |
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