|
Paris - Nice 2012
|
| dienblad |
Posted on 08-03-2012 21:20
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3772
Joined: 10-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Fact 1: Westra didn't beat Wiggins in ITT stage 1.
Fact 2: Westra has always been a good time-trialist.
Fact 3; Westra has never climbed like he did today.
Fact 4: Westra is focussed at this Paris-Nice, wheras Valverde and Wiggins have more important goals this season
Fact 5: Last year, Tony Martin won Paris-Nice, climbing with the best at the Col de la Mure. This year, he is nowhere..
Fact 6: Looking at the last 2 years, no Vacansoleil-cyclist tested positive for doping. Okay, they had Ricco, which was a ridiculous move, and tested Mosquera who didn't ride a single metre in a race, but still, no positives!!!
Conclusion: season planning and form peaks can make a huge difference. I really have no suspicion about Westra (even considering I'm Dutch) and unless he has some positive urine, nothing can change my mind! Although he surprises me a lot, but I love that (hey, what about Tiernan-Locke for example, saw nobody with a post about accusations for him! And for the case: me neither.)
|
| |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 08-03-2012 21:26
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
lol rjc_43, what about Tiernan-Locke then?? Coming completely out of nowhere and I even defended him on several boards. Nice way to repay me for that by randomly accusing Westra because I'm defending his chances in an uphill ITT (you're still seeing col d'eze as a normal tt somehow).
Who is really biased here? You are... childish really.
It's your total disregard of Westra's chances, that makes you very arrogant. You think Wiggins will win against him no matter what. Totally disregarding current form + Westra's progress. I'm not saying he will do it, but I'm saying it is very much possible. If Westra can beat Valverde and co up Mende, who says he can't beat Wiggins in an uphill ITT?
To say it's impossible or to make it anger you is downright ARROGANT! Get over yourself.
And about shoving your countrymen's performances down other people throats. The whole Sky/British lovers here do EXACTLY the same. You'll never here me complain about that. About every fart of Froome and Wiggins heralded as the best thing ever. I never say anything about that. But when I'm proud of something. I get shot down. I will remember that. Next time another one of those british guy lets a fart and you all become esthatic about it, again, you'll hear from me.
Edited by ruben on 08-03-2012 21:35
|
| |
|
|
| lagetcher |
Posted on 08-03-2012 21:33
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1513
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Why do things always have to get personal? 
By the way, I know Westra is on great form, but I think his odds for the betting are slightly unreasonable  |
| |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 08-03-2012 21:37
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Because RJC_43 is extremely unreasonable.
The Norwegians always go haywire as soon as Hagen or Hushovd or Nordhaug show their face. Nobody, not me anyway, complains.
THe British go berserk everytime Froomy, Wiggo, JTL and other British riders with those nicknames of them perform. I never complain, it's normal.
But when Westra wins and I show my face it's "shoving performances down other people throats"
GET A MIRROR... and look at your own posts. Thank you. RJC... |
| |
|
|
| Wilier |
Posted on 08-03-2012 21:45
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5405
Joined: 28-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
It is possible for Westra to beat Wiggins, though it's not very likely. I hope for the best.  |
| |
|
|
| tsmoha |
Posted on 08-03-2012 21:50
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11819
Joined: 19-07-2010
PCM$: 300.00
|
ruben wrote:
The Norwegians always go haywire as soon as Hagen or Hushovd or Nordhaug show their face. Nobody, not me anyway, complains.
Tbh, that's not true  There's always someone complaining about those so-called Norwegian "fanboys". And to clarify: I don't care anyway. Let the Norwegian shout for Hagen, the Dutch shout for Gesink and the German... well.. for Kittel
|
| |
|
|
| ShortsNL |
Posted on 08-03-2012 22:13
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
You know what, the whole argument about Westra being hyped or not is pointless.
The fact is, he showed tremendous results today. He and his team should be proud for it, and everyone else should be giving him/them respect for it.
For me, I'm just proud I chose to start my first ever carreer in my first ever PCM game as Vacansoleil-DCM, instead of the obvious Rabobank, because I believed in the team. |
| |
|
|
| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 08-03-2012 22:15
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4790
Joined: 06-12-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
I think we should all get together and just bash Valverde. I hold him to blame indirectly for this.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/illne...ce-peloton |
| |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 08-03-2012 22:20
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
That I can agree on (to bahs Valverde). Again he rides like a coward just as before his suspension.
Use all your teammates, then hide in the wheel of other climbers and come out for the final 200m. It's disgusting. He really is the mountain sprinter. Do nothing until the final 200m. The real minimalist. Just reminds me so much of the Vuelta 2009 again. Terrible |
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 08-03-2012 22:49
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
ruben wrote:
That I can agree on (to bahs Valverde). Again he rides like a coward just as before his suspension.
Use all your teammates, then hide in the wheel of other climbers and come out for the final 200m. It's disgusting. He really is the mountain sprinter. Do nothing until the final 200m. The real minimalist. Just reminds me so much of the Vuelta 2009 again. Terrible
This. Yet some people still want bonus seconds in cycling. They're a disgrace.
|
| |
|
|
| rjc_43 |
Posted on 08-03-2012 22:50
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
dienblad wrote:
Fact 1: Westra didn't beat Wiggins in ITT stage 1.
Fact 2: Westra has always been a good time-trialist.
Fact 3; Westra has never climbed like he did today.
Fact 4: Westra is focused at this Paris-Nice, whereas Valverde and Wiggins have more important goals this season
Fact 5: Last year, Tony Martin won Paris-Nice, climbing with the best at the Col de la Mure. This year, he is nowhere..
Fact 6: Looking at the last 2 years, no Vacansoleil-cyclist tested positive for doping. Okay, they had Ricco, which was a ridiculous move, and tested Mosquera who didn't ride a single metre in a race, but still, no positives!!!
Conclusion: season planning and form peaks can make a huge difference. I really have no suspicion about Westra (even considering I'm Dutch) and unless he has some positive urine, nothing can change my mind! Although he surprises me a lot, but I love that (hey, what about Tiernan-Locke for example, saw nobody with a post about accusations for him! And for the case: me neither.)
Personally I have to disagree about peaks. I think Wiggins is very much up for winning this race. You forget (perhaps) that for Sky, performing in these races are key as they result in the car order for the classics, which again, is a key point. On that note, Omega-Pharma - Quickstep must be very happy about that!
Tiernan-Locke; do you not think that I have not had those thoughts myself? I doubted his performance to the extremes. I guess his are more believable for me as I've raced in races with him, and the fact he'd win every single hilly race kind of made it more believable. Looking at Westra's previous results, nothing, at all, has shown his climbing ability. Ever.
At least Wiggins showed when he came to light, that he could climb as well as Armstrong in the Giro, before his tour result.
ruben wrote:
lol rjc_43, what about Tiernan-Locke then?? Coming completely out of nowhere and I even defended him on several boards. Nice way to repay me for that by randomly accusing Westra because I'm defending his chances in an uphill ITT (you're still seeing col d'eze as a normal tt somehow).
Who is really biased here? You are... childish really.
It's your total disregard of Westra's chances, that makes you very arrogant. You think Wiggins will win against him no matter what. Totally disregarding current form + Westra's progress. I'm not saying he will do it, but I'm saying it is very much possible. If Westra can beat Valverde and co up Mende, who says he can't beat Wiggins in an uphill ITT?
To say it's impossible or to make it anger you is downright ARROGANT! Get over yourself.
And about shoving your countrymen's performances down other people throats. The whole Sky/British lovers here do EXACTLY the same. You'll never here me complain about that. About every fart of Froome and Wiggins heralded as the best thing ever. I never say anything about that. But when I'm proud of something. I get shot down. I will remember that. Next time another one of those british guy lets a fart and you all become esthatic about it, again, you'll hear from me.
I'm sorry, I don't stalk you online, so how am I meant to know what you've written, or not written on forums other than here?
You weren't defending Westra's chances. You claimed, without any hint of joke, or hope, that he'd beat Wiggins in an uphill TT. As if it was a fact. Your attitude is what winds me up, not what you write (half the time), nor what other "fan-boys" write.
How am I claiming Wiggins will do better? I haven't, in fact, written anything about predicted performances.
And please do feel it your right to make a mockery of Sky fan boys, or British fan boys. I, personally, don't feel we need to rub it in peoples faces if someone from our country does well. I mean, it's kind of just a given nowadays isn't it [heavily laced with humour].
ruben wrote:
Because RJC_43 is extremely unreasonable.
The Norwegians always go haywire as soon as Hagen or Hushovd or Nordhaug show their face. Nobody, not me anyway, complains.
THe British go berserk everytime Froomy, Wiggo, JTL and other British riders with those nicknames of them perform. I never complain, it's normal.
But when Westra wins and I show my face it's "shoving performances down other people throats"
GET A MIRROR... and look at your own posts. Thank you. RJC...
My forum name is rjc_43. Please use appropriately.
Do not blame me for what 14 year old British boys write or say online when their idol does well.
I guess it annoys me that you only show your face when a rider from Holland/Netherlands does well.
Over here, it's called jumping on the band wagon.
And I do look at my own posts. And usually wince a little bit.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 06:44
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 08-03-2012 22:52
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
The first time I posted Westra will win the ITT it was obviously a joke. Even a child can see that. But you're probably one of those people who don't recognize humor if it was dancing naked in front of them. |
| |
|
|
| mb2612 |
Posted on 08-03-2012 22:57
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Children, play nice.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
| |
|
|
| sutty68 |
Posted on 08-03-2012 22:58
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 34654
Joined: 22-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Have just watched the highlight's of today's stage and i have to say a big well done to Richie Porte for the way he destroyed the leading group in favour of his Team Leader Bradley Wiggins, Well Done Richie. |
| |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 08-03-2012 23:00
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Just to clarify. I don't feel at all confident that Westra can take Wiggins or Leipheimer in the Col d'Eze MTT.
I'm only kidding when I saw he's going to obliterate everyone. I can only hope he does. But definitely not expect it.
Then again, if you told me before today Westra can beat Valverde by 6 seconds on Mende I would have recommended a good mental institution for you.... |
| |
|
|
| dienblad |
Posted on 08-03-2012 23:03
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3772
Joined: 10-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
About that bad stomachs? A case of gastric enteritis? Maybe the entire peloton ate a piece of Spanish steak??? Someone should tell the UCI not to test riders now
|
| |
|
|
| rjc_43 |
Posted on 08-03-2012 23:03
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
And the last time I had an argument with you about this exact same issue was about your use of jokes without applying suitable indication you were joking.
I can't listen to the inflections of your voice online, can I?
Use smileys God damnit.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
| |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 08-03-2012 23:05
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Don't feel bad. I have the same problem in real life. Only people who know me well know when I'm joking or when I'm serious.
To the amusement of my friends when we're in conversation with people who do not know me... it throws them completely off |
| |
|
|
| shraggi |
Posted on 08-03-2012 23:08
|
Under 23
Posts: 77
Joined: 23-04-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
dienblad wrote:
Fact 1: Westra didn't beat Wiggins in ITT stage 1.
Fact 2: Westra has always been a good time-trialist.
Fact 3; Westra has never climbed like he did today.
Fact 4: Westra is focussed at this Paris-Nice, wheras Valverde and Wiggins have more important goals this season
Fact 5: Last year, Tony Martin won Paris-Nice, climbing with the best at the Col de la Mure. This year, he is nowhere..
Fact 6: Looking at the last 2 years, no Vacansoleil-cyclist tested positive for doping. Okay, they had Ricco, which was a ridiculous move, and tested Mosquera who didn't ride a single metre in a race, but still, no positives!!!
Conclusion: season planning and form peaks can make a huge difference. I really have no suspicion about Westra (even considering I'm Dutch) and unless he has some positive urine, nothing can change my mind! Although he surprises me a lot, but I love that (hey, what about Tiernan-Locke for example, saw nobody with a post about accusations for him! And for the case: me neither.)
Wiggins has claimed he is the form of his life so I think your point about him aiming to peak for more important goals is irrelevant.
And how many riders have tested positive in the last 2 years, its not an achievment any more to go 2 years without any doping infractions on your team. And i also believe that its irelevant about the team, nowadays doping is spurned and their is certainly not big within team operations going on, if anything it is very individualised with it being responsible to individuals to work it all out, something which shows the steps forward that cycling has made in that respect.
ruben wrote:
lol rjc_43, what about Tiernan-Locke then?? Coming completely out of nowhere and I even defended him on several boards. Nice way to repay me for that by randomly accusing Westra because I'm defending his chances in an uphill ITT (you're still seeing col d'eze as a normal tt somehow).
Who is really biased here? You are... childish really.
It's your total disregard of Westra's chances, that makes you very arrogant. You think Wiggins will win against him no matter what. Totally disregarding current form + Westra's progress. I'm not saying he will do it, but I'm saying it is very much possible. If Westra can beat Valverde and co up Mende, who says he can't beat Wiggins in an uphill ITT?
To say it's impossible or to make it anger you is downright ARROGANT! Get over yourself.
And about shoving your countrymen's performances down other people throats. The whole Sky/British lovers here do EXACTLY the same. You'll never here me complain about that. About every fart of Froome and Wiggins heralded as the best thing ever. I never say anything about that. But when I'm proud of something. I get shot down. I will remember that. Next time another one of those british guy lets a fart and you all become esthatic about it, again, you'll hear from me.
Yes but its important to remember that Westra is more suited to todays finish than Wiggins is, its true even though he is a specialist Time trialist, so it may not be totally indicative of their true form.
Whilst todays stage certainly didnt suit Wiggins, the TT stage will certainly suit him down to the boots.
"That stage will start full gas, be ridden full gas and will finish full gas"
|
| |
|
|
| ruben |
Posted on 08-03-2012 23:27
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
How is Westra more suited to a finish like todays than Wiggins?
Prior to this stage he has never shown any aptitude for this kind of finish or any kind of mountain finish for that matter.
He was a much more unlikely winner on this kind of finish than Wiggins ever was. So explain yourself.
I'd say Westra and Wiggins are pretty similar as type of riders. Their stories are different though.
Wiggins was heavily involved in track racing in most of his career and not always as serious. That changed at later age and then he got serious, slimmed down, learned how to climb and became a solid stage-racer.
Westra was a good talent in his youth (he started racing at age 8), then quit cycling completely as junior because he enjoyed life more. He started partying and working until he got tired of that life. Then restarted his career years later, and a lot of kilo's heavier (he weight almost 100kg at one point). He's been slowly evolving ever since his comeback at age 23 and still has so much progress potential. His time trial was the first thing that became really good (kinda like Wiggins only had his time trial in his early road career).
Only this winter he started training in Spain and focussing on climbing and slimmed down..
2 completely different stories. But with the same outcome.
Edited by ruben on 08-03-2012 23:30
|
| |
|
