pesci wrote:
I hate more Amstrong blind fans than Cav haters!!!
i mean, the only thing that pisses me off, is that winning 7 tours de france in a row after beating a cancer, and be a former world champ, doesn't seem enough to please people. and i'm not mentioning the great work on LIVESTRONG and what it stands for. at least show some respect on one of the greatest cyclist, sportsman and even human around the world.
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pesci wrote:
I hate more Amstrong blind fans than Cav haters!!!
i mean, the only thing that pisses me off, is that winning 7 tours de france in a row after beating a cancer, and be a former world champ, doesn't seem enough to please people. and i'm not mentioning the great work on LIVESTRONG and what it stands for. at least show some respect on one of the greatest cyclist, sportsman and even human around the world.
You can read what I think in the previous answer...
just did, and i think that comeback to the sport to promote a foundation that fights the cancer is a very noble cause. and yes, i actually saw some astana guys, two that made a great work, tiralongo and navarro. behind them i just saw a cyclist called Contador that has no notion on having a team and respecting former teammates and veterans.
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JayTheKid wrote:
just did, and i think that comeback to the sport to promote a foundation that fights the cancer is a very noble cause. and yes, i actually saw some astana guys, two that made a great work, tiralongo and navarro. behind them i just saw a cyclist called Contador that has no notion on having a team and respecting former teammates and veterans.
He gave Lance a watch, out of respect, to commemorate his Tour win last year. What did Lance do? Sit on the back of his bus in a strop.
Contador has respect for his competitors that deserve it. For example his and Andy Schleck's great respect for each other.
JayTheKid wrote:
just did, and i think that comeback to the sport to promote a foundation that fights the cancer is a very noble cause. and yes, i actually saw some astana guys, two that made a great work, tiralongo and navarro. behind them i just saw a cyclist called Contador that has no notion on having a team and respecting former teammates and veterans.
Well I think the one which never respect Contador was Amstrong. Or did you already forgot Amstrong setting Kloden to push when Contador was scape?
Or did you forgot who was the number 1 of the team?
Livestrom is a big enough company annd already working fine, it does not need Amstrong and his team doing the clown on the TdF final stage!!
lot of armstrong haters round here. armstrong didn't pushed kloden, contador didn't care about kloden and attacked without asking him how you felt, in that stage that contador frank and andy were the winners, do you remember? or that stage in he beginning where contador just turned solo and attacked without order. he thinks he's the best, he thinks he's the boss, but is not. there is a boss already. maybe i could even remeber of that team time trial... where lance lead astana to TTT win, and stayed half of a second of the maillot jaune. if he, in that moment, would won the YJ, than all this talking would be diferent. there would have been no 1-rider-team-contador, and armstrong would lead the way to Paris.
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pesci wrote:
I hate more Amstrong blind fans than Cav haters!!!
i mean, the only thing that pisses me off, is that winning 7 tours de france in a row after beating a cancer, and be a former world champ, doesn't seem enough to please people. and i'm not mentioning the great work on LIVESTRONG and what it stands for. at least show some respect on one of the greatest cyclist, sportsman and even human around the world.
Oh I agree that he is a great fighter, against cancer and on the bike, and it terms of positive impact on humanity probably the greatest cyclist of the last hundred years, however while that makes him a great man, it doesn't make him a good man. He is well known to try and destroy anyone who disagrees with him, it is almost certain that he doped (although all his competitors also did so that is not in itself a failing of his) but he also is very rarely in it for other cyclists. He competed against Contador in 2008, he made Kloden look after him when Kloden was clearly the stronger rider and not once this tour did he help Leipheimer.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182]Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
In your sweet dreams maybe with a TTT Armstrong would have won this TDF in front of Contador, but nowhere else...
Armstrong is a boss ? Boss of what ? Does 10 days of racing in the US, 7 to 10 in Europe, prior to the TDF. And he's in a good shape only during 3 weeks.
How could he possibly be a boss ? Just in his, and his fanboys, megalomaniac dreams, but here again : nowhere else.
No respect for former team mates ? Ask whoever left his team after 1999 what kind of respect he has for them...
@aquarius sure, that's why leipheimer, paulinho, kloden, etc came to radioshack, because they hate lance and they want to destroy him. i could really bet how the environment in astana bus was. when contador born armstrong was alerady winning bike competitions as a kid.
@mb2612 i gues that we see the same things but we take em in different ways. your opinion.
@anyone else that is going to post don't say that he doped the 7 years, that would be great. this conversation's not going anywhere.
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JayTheKid, is it just me or did you miss the fact that the 2 last years Contador has owned Armstrong in TDF? You may also have missed the fact that it was Contador who was supposed to be the leader of Astana last year in TDF, but Armstrong lead the team against him? But in the end Contador simply beat Armstrong, even though Armstrong got help and Contador not?
And I'm no Contador fan, nor a Armstrong-hater. Just a realist looking at the facts. And the facts say that the last years Contador is simply a better cyclist than Armstrong.
"when contador born armstrong was alerady winning bike competitions as a kid." When Armstrong was born Merxs (spelling?), Coppi etc were already bigger riders than he will ever be imo. Who's the biggest riders is subjective, and for me Armstrong comes far down, I prefer riders who win (and try) for more than 1 race a year.
Ask Hamilton, Vaughters, Landis, Livingston, and others if he still has good relationships with them... Just wait for Hincapie and Zabriskie talks to FDA to be made public and he'll show them respect too.
Armstrong is older than Contador ? So what, I'm probably older than you and younger than other people too, then what ? Does it make Armstrong superior to anything or anyone ? I don't get that. Maybe at the age Armstrong was when Contador was born (11 ?) Contador was winning cycling races as a kid too ? How would that make Armstrong superior to Condador ? Flawed logic...
Armstrong is the boss in his team, he's not a boss in the peloton. At best he was a boss in the TDF peloton during his winning years, and that's it.
yeah, you're right. but just don't say that the reason to you don't like him is because he only trains to TDF, that's no reason. that just make you look like jeallous.
y'all are right, we have differente points of views.
congrats to contador and schleck for the great rivalrie (bad spelling), and i hope that andy wins it next year.
still, i don't think you need to insult me, and don't talk about things that you don't know (ME), and this is to me too, just learned that besides daily having a great community and having people that know a lot of thing about cycling, you just hate LA anyways, im sorry for the trash talk
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"yeah, you're right. but just don't say that the reason to you don't like him is because he only trains to TDF, that's no reason. that just make you look like jeallous."
Never said I didn't like him, I said I prefered others. And I think others are much better (and so does most poeple who really follow cycling it seems, as most of the members here)
CrueTrue wrote:
As Jay himself said: "This conversation's not going anywhere."
You can't argue with fanboys
yea, nothing you say is going to change my mind.
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Heine wrote:
"yeah, you're right. but just don't say that the reason to you don't like him is because he only trains to TDF, that's no reason. that just make you look like jeallous."
Never said I didn't like him, I said I prefered others. And I think others are much better (and so does most poeple who really follow cycling it seems, as most of the members here)
ok, i'm not trying to make enemies, sorry if it looked like it. i may not agree, but i understand your point.
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JayTheKid wrote:
yeah, you're right. but just don't say that the reason to you don't like him is because he only trains to TDF, that's no reason. that just make you look like jeallous.
Well, as a cyclist, or former cyclist, it's just natural that I'm jealous at him, my ultimate goal was to win several TDF. looks like I didn't manage. Nevermind, there are other ways for me to be pleased with my life.
He only trains for the TDF and I hate him for that ? I don't care, I liked LeMond, Ullrich (despite the dope), etc. They were TDF specialists, in his later years for LeMond, all his career long for Ullrich.
So how does that apply to Armstrong ? I don't understand.
Why I hate Armstrong ? Saying I hate him would mean that I really care about him, which I simply don't. He might win millions, or be stabbed to death, I couldn't care.
Though, if you want some actual reasons...
- He made TDF boring and predictable.
- He behaves like he's the boss wherever he is. Sorry, but which legitimacy does he have for that ? Merckx or Hinault had, they won plenty of races, including the biggest ones, all year long, season after season. Armstrong ? TDF specialist, random rider on a couple of other races. Hardly legitimate.
- He's protected by a bunch of corrupt people. Hein Verbrugghen, Pat McQuaid and all their glorious company. "Give me money, I'll clear your reports. We need you to promote cycling in the world, cheat as much as you want, we'll save your ass." If you've got any sense of justice you should find this disgusting.
- He is or was "prepared" by people publicly known for helping riders to dope. Michele Ferrari if that rings a bell to you. Knows crap about cycling, but is a famous haematologist, top EPO-specialist in his days. A little suspicious, eh ?
- He was caught with corticoids in 1999, but was allowed, against all laws, to produce a certificate for that after his control was published. The certificate was most likely antidated.
- 1999 again, six samples from six different TDF stages. 3 methods used on each of them in 2005. 18 positives test for EPO. He didn't sue the lab, despite enough substance to perform both ADN tests and other EPO tests on them.
- 2005, after the former was revealed, for no particular reason (or so he says) he made another huge check to the UCI. He was cleared of charges by a laughable report.
- 2001. If we trust Landis stories, he was caught positive for EPO again, at the Tour de Suisse. He made a check (he admitted the check) to UCI, and we never heard about the control again before this year.
- He changed his opinion several times about many things (yet he doesn't mind bashing Landis for changing his opinion once) : the fact he used EPO to cure himself from his cancer, the fact he was allowed special PED after starting his second career, as a treatment for his cancer, the fact he has never make a check to the UCI, but remembers one when it's found by accountancy (and investigators), and remembers a second one.
- He sacked his home domestic because he had noticed steroids in his Spanish house.
- He moved from France to Spain, where at the times the authorities didn't mind much about doping.
- I was about to forget that one. When Landis learnt him he'd leave the team, he got mad at him, like betrayed. Can't anyone leave his team without it being a betrayal ? You've got to be paranoid. As a consequence he emptied Landis 3rd week blood bag in the toilets, so Landis didn't get his last blood refill that year.
- He is out to destroy anyone whose opinion about him doesn't go along his. Yet he often changes his own opinion, so whatever one's opinion might be about him, it's likely to not please him any more some day.
- He's trying to dirt LeMond with doping crap. No one who has known LeMond as a rider has anything to reproach him about it. No one. Yet L.A. is ready to pay people to claim the opposite. Ask Andreu...
- He has very likely made his cancer look worst than it actually was (I'm not wishing to have one, even one like he really had to anyone though)... The number of people surviving such a cancer is quite high, that doesn't make him such an " extreme survivor" guy.
- He's acting like a P.R. guy in his fight for cancer, trying to look good. Giving to charity, I count cancer fight as one, is a very good thing. But using that for ego purposes ? He's just a cold blood, megalomaniac business man. His come back was more led by that than by his passion for cycling...
- There's a long, long, long list of other stuff, but I can't spend the whole afternoon writing about it.
Grow up and open your eyes... That'll hurt you less when his business will collapse.
Edited by Aquarius on 26-07-2010 12:43
JayTheKid wrote:
yeah, you're right. but just don't say that the reason to you don't like him is because he only trains to TDF, that's no reason. that just make you look like jeallous.
Well, as a cyclist, or former cyclist, it's just natural that I'm jealous at him, my ultimate goal was to win several TDF. looks like I didn't manage. Nevermind, there are other ways for me to be pleased with my life.
He only trains for the TDF and I hate him for that ? I don't care, I liked LeMond, Ullrich (despite the dope), etc. They were TDF specialists, in his later years for LeMond, all his career long for Ullrich.
So how does that apply to Armstrong ? I don't understand.
Why I hate Armstrong ? Saying I hate him would mean that I really care about him, which I simply don't. He might win millions, or be stabbed to death, I couldn't care.
Though, if you want some actual reasons...
- He made TDF boring and predictable.
- He behaves like he's the boss wherever he is. Sorry, but which legitimacy does he have for that ? Merckx or Hinault had, they won plenty of races, including the biggest ones, all year long, season after season. Armstrong ? TDF specialist, random rider on a couple of other races. Hardly legitimate.
- He's protected by a bunch of corrupt people. Hein Verbrugghen, Pat McQuaid and all their glorious company. "Give me money, I'll clear your reports. We need you to promote cycling in the world, cheat as much as you want, we'll save your ass." If you've got any sense of justice you should find this disgusting.
- He is or was "prepared" by people publicly known for helping riders to dope. Michele Ferrari if that rings a bell to you. Knows crap about cycling, but is a famous haematologist, top EPO-specialist in his days. A little suspicious, eh ?
- He was caught with corticoids in 1999, but was allowed, against all laws, to produce a certificate for that after his control was published. The certificate was most likely antidated.
- 1999 again, six samples from six different TDF stages. 3 methods used on each of them in 2005. 18 positives test for EPO. He didn't sue the lab, despite enough substance to perform both ADN tests and other EPO tests on them.
- 2005, after the former was revealed, for no particular reason (or so he says) he made another huge check to the UCI. He was cleared of charges by a laughable report.
- 2001. If we trust Landis stories, he was caught positive for EPO again, at the Tour de Suisse. He made a check (he admitted the check) to UCI, and we never heard about the control again before this year.
- He changed his opinion several times about many things (yet he doesn't mind bashing Landis for changing his opinion once) : the fact he used EPO to cure himself from his cancer, the fact he was allowed special PED after starting his second career, as a treatment for his cancer, the fact he has never make a check to the UCI, but remembers one when it's found by accountancy (and investigators), and remembers a second one.
- He sacked his home domestic because he had noticed steroids in his Spanish house.
- He moved from France to Spain, where at the times the authorities didn't mind much about doping.
- I was about to forget that one. When Landis learnt him he'd leave the team, he got mad at him, like betrayed. Can't anyone leave his team without it being a betrayal ? You've got to be paranoid. As a consequence he emptied Landis 3rd week blood bag in the toilets, so Landis didn't get his last blood refill that year.
- He is out to destroy anyone whose opinion about him doesn't go along his. Yet he often changes his own opinion, so whatever one's opinion might be about him, it's likely to not please him any more some day.
- He's trying to dirt LeMond with doping crap. No one who has known LeMond as a rider has anything to reproach him about it. No one. Yet L.A. is ready to pay people to claim the opposite. Ask Andreu...
- He has very likely made his cancer look worst than it actually was (I'm not wishing to have one, even one like he really had to anyone though)... The number of people surviving such a cancer is quite high, that doesn't make him such an " extreme survivor" guy.
- He's acting like a P.R. guy in his fight for cancer, trying to look good. Giving to charity, I count cancer fight as one, is a very good thing. But using that for ego purposes ? He's just a cold blood, megalomaniac business man. His come back was more led by that than by his passion for cycling...
- There's a long, long, long list of other stuff, but I can't spend the whole afternoon writing about it.
Grow up and open your eyes... That'll hurt you less when his business will collapse.
