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Giro d'Italia 2010
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2010 22:28
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Tour de France Champion
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NicolaiR wrote:
No, I don't say that everyone else was clean. But I said that they were the once that was caught.
It's to ridiculous to discuss too much about this, because the average speed was obviously was much BETTER 2 years ago. What does that tell you? That "everyone" in 2008 was doped. That is wrong. It maybe a few less doped riders this year, or it could be more.
The real reason why it went better for everyone, except dose who have become much better riders like, Wiggins and Nibali, have to be other conditions than dope. Why can't you realize that?
Because I'm not naive.
When the people in charge of the testing themselves are telling us that most riders are doping, they just can't prove it, you have to believe them.
There are a lot of cheap, easy to get drugs that have very large effects on performance and are completely undetectable. There is literally no test to detect them. Why can't you realize that?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| NicolaiR |
Posted on 25-05-2010 22:42
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issoisso wrote:
NicolaiR wrote:
No, I don't say that everyone else was clean. But I said that they were the once that was caught.
It's to ridiculous to discuss too much about this, because the average speed was obviously was much BETTER 2 years ago. What does that tell you? That "everyone" in 2008 was doped. That is wrong. It maybe a few less doped riders this year, or it could be more.
The real reason why it went better for everyone, except dose who have become much better riders like, Wiggins and Nibali, have to be other conditions than dope. Why can't you realize that?
Because I'm not naive.
When the people in charge of the testing themselves are telling us that most riders are doping, they just can't prove it, you have to believe them.
There are a lot of cheap, easy to get drugs that have very large effects on performance and are completely undetectable. There is literally no test to detect them. Why can't you realize that?
Haha, fail. Okey, so you say that everyone stopped doping themselves this year?
One one side you say that everyone was doped in 2008, now you say that most people in this sport are doped in general! |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2010 22:45
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Tour de France Champion
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NicolaiR wrote:
Haha, fail. Okey, so you say that everyone stopped doping themselves this year?
One one side you say that everyone was doped in 2008, now you say that most people in this sport are doped in general!
Comprehension really isn't your thing, is it?
*bitch slap*
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Lorkan |
Posted on 25-05-2010 22:50
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Stagiare
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No surprise concerning Gadret to me... when you're able to end up in top 10 several times in Mur de Huy, when you have won several national cyclo-cross championships, that you have many references on difficult stages, then you're able to perform well on a steep solo climb... |
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| NicolaiR |
Posted on 25-05-2010 22:56
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issoisso wrote:
NicolaiR wrote:
Haha, fail. Okey, so you say that everyone stopped doping themselves this year?
One one side you say that everyone was doped in 2008, now you say that most people in this sport are doped in general!
Comprehension really isn't your thing, is it?
*bitch slap*
Well, at least I'm pretty sure you understand what i meant in the start no matter how stubborn you are.
And to sum up; doping simply cannot be the only reason why 2008 stage was way faster, it simply can't!
Edited by NicolaiR on 25-05-2010 22:58
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2010 23:00
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Tour de France Champion
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To sum it up, your reasoning is: it can't because it can't.
Because that would just be too bad, right?
I sympathize with you, believe me, I do. Because I know a ton of fans like you. I know enough of your type to know you don't ignore the evidence because you want to. You ignore them because you desperately need to believe.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| boork |
Posted on 25-05-2010 23:16
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NicolaiR wrote:...
I feel bad for those who try to argue with Isso without anything to back it up. Especially when they keep it up long after what they used as original argument have been made mute. |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 25-05-2010 23:31
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He does have a point, at what point to we agree is the 'clean point' of 2008?
because if it is much easier now then do we have to go all the way too say, Philip Deignan in 30th place? because that's a long way, even for a fairly doped sport.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| boork |
Posted on 25-05-2010 23:59
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I think he missed the point. There is no "clean point".
I believe the trend in doping has changed and that is what we see. A few years ago some did quite heavy doping that could lead to extreme results. Now the trend in doping is to be more careful and aim a lot on long term results. The new drugs are more effective but they know if they dope the way some did 2-3 years ago they will get caught. IF not now then later when they can go back and check the all tests.
Before 2009 when they went back and rechecked the old tests many doped a lot as they know what they did wouldnt get them caught right now.
So cleaner, yes. Clean? no, absolutly not. Everyone in the peloton is still just as likely to dope just the advantage is a bit different now and i think it has made it a bit easier for clean riders to compete. |
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| Sherpa |
Posted on 26-05-2010 00:46
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issoisso wrote:
To sum it up, your reasoning is: it can't because it can't.
Because that would just be too bad, right?
I sympathize with you, believe me, I do. Because I know a ton of fans like you. I know enough of your type to know you don't ignore the evidence because you want to. You ignore them because you desperately need to believe.
Lol at that. NicolaiR is obviously right.
The huge time difference for almost all the riders can't be explained only by doping.
I don't know if the gravel was better or not, from what I read some said it was some said it wasn't. But it's obvious to me that something like distance, temperature, wind,... must have something to do, alongside with doping, with this year results.
EDIT: as always, the best way to figure this out would be by looking at the power results of some riders between the 2 editions.
Edited by Sherpa on 26-05-2010 00:50
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| jacknic |
Posted on 26-05-2010 01:04
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Domestique
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Nice to see that nothing ever changes on these boards
That used to be me arguing with Issoisso on these issues. I do like to believe my arguments were slightly better though.
It's just nice to see the times are slower as it at least illudes a less doped pack. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 11:34
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| Sherpa |
Posted on 26-05-2010 01:05
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Stagiare
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By the way, do you still think Vinokourov is as doped as he was back in the days (as many of you were saying when he won LBL)? I don't think so... |
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| NicolaiR |
Posted on 26-05-2010 08:26
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issoisso wrote:
To sum it up, your reasoning is: it can't because it can't.
Because that would just be too bad, right?
I sympathize with you, believe me, I do. Because I know a ton of fans like you. I know enough of your type to know you don't ignore the evidence because you want to. You ignore them because you desperately need to believe.
Wow, you are to god damn stubborn. You know you had wrong, so I don't see why u continued. You have al a long stated that doping is the reason why everyone in 2008 had much higher average speed, but that's is not the only reason, and probably not the reason at all. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-05-2010 08:31
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Tour de France Champion
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Suit yourself. If you have absolutely no arguments whatsoever, then it's no longer a discussion
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Smowz |
Posted on 26-05-2010 08:36
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Back to the cycling
Yesterday was not as decisive as I thought it would be. Obviously Garzelli was awesome, you cannot help but question how the guy can go as well as he did after suffering in recent stages. But I guess it is a mountian on its own and we have to take it at face value.
Evans managed to steal some of the seconds back that he lost on the Zoncalon to Basso, who showed Basso certainly isn't in domination zone yet by any means. Nibali, Scarponi and Basso did not have bad times at all though and will be pleased enough with their efforts.
Arroyo surprised me, losing just over a minute to Basso and 1.30 to Evans. This has to be judged a success but you still suspect he will have trouble holding on to a podium place. Porte was superb, really well dug in there for a young guy, I am interested to see how he does in the next week. He has the support from Sorenson.
Vino was okay, Sastre very average ride but both not out of it though you suspect this week will be hard for them.
Linus Gerdemann had a really tough time though finishing outside the top 100, he was the only guy to lose a top 10 GC chance on yesterdays outing.
Today stage is a bit of a unknown. Caisse and Liquigas will look to control what I would imagine will be a volatile bunch - the profile suggests a bug chance for breakaways as it is not tough enough to make huge GC strides. Lets remember the last day like this when the big break went clear.
One for the Voeckler type I think. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-05-2010 08:59
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Tour de France Champion
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Smowz wrote:
Back to the cycling
Amen
Smowz wrote:
Yesterday was not as decisive as I thought it would be. Obviously Garzelli was awesome, you cannot help but question how the guy can go as well as he did after suffering in recent stages. But I guess it is a mountian on its own and we have to take it at face value.
It was odd, but then again Garzelli didn't go full on the past two days, so I guess it makes some sense
Smowz wrote:
Evans managed to steal some of the seconds back that he lost on the Zoncalon to Basso, who showed Basso certainly isn't in domination zone yet by any means. Nibali, Scarponi and Basso did not have bad times at all though and will be pleased enough with their efforts.
I do think it was a pretty good ride by Basso. These short efforts were never his thing. Remember the 2004 Tour? Armstrong was destroying everyone....except Basso who was climbing with him and even beating him.....
and then on the mountain TT Basso lost over two minutes despite that wonderful form.
Smowz wrote:
Arroyo surprised me, losing just over a minute to Basso and 1.30 to Evans. This has to be judged a success but you still suspect he will have trouble holding on to a podium place. Porte was superb, really well dug in there for a young guy, I am interested to see how he does in the next week. He has the support from Sorenson.
Kudos to Porte. Surprising and impressive.
Smowz wrote:
Vino was okay, Sastre very average ride but both not out of it though you suspect this week will be hard for them.
At this point Sastre has to be thinking of saving himself for the Tour, no?
Smowz wrote:
Today stage is a bit of a unknown. Caisse and Liquigas will look to control what I would imagine will be a volatile bunch - the profile suggests a bug chance for breakaways as it is not tough enough to make huge GC strides. Lets remember the last day like this when the big break went clear.
One for the Voeckler type I think.
I would love it Voeckler took it. I do think it's a great day for a break, but if not, Garzelli has to be a favourite, since the final climb isn't hard enough for any gaps and therefore the favourites will get to the sprint together.
It basically looks like almost every "mountain stage" (if you can call them that) from the year Cunego won the Giro.
Honestly, I think a break takes it.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| jack888 |
Posted on 26-05-2010 09:31
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https://www.youtub...roadsports
some nice footage of the giro and TOC ^ |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 26-05-2010 10:53
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World Champion
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NicolaiR wrote:
issoisso wrote:
To sum it up, your reasoning is: it can't because it can't.
Because that would just be too bad, right?
I sympathize with you, believe me, I do. Because I know a ton of fans like you. I know enough of your type to know you don't ignore the evidence because you want to. You ignore them because you desperately need to believe.
Wow, you are to god damn stubborn. You know you had wrong, so I don't see why u continued. You have al a long stated that doping is the reason why everyone in 2008 had much higher average speed, but that's is not the only reason, and probably not the reason at all.
Come up with reasons why it wasn't mainly caused by doping 
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| khris |
Posted on 27-05-2010 15:38
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Finally, pcmdaily is back. 24km left of todays stage, the two breakaway riders at 1'30.
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| Smowz |
Posted on 27-05-2010 15:39
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Sky Train vs Columbia train! With Dean, Hondo and Brown trying to suck the right wheel.
My pick for today though... Fabio Sabatini |
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