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News in February
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 14-02-2008 19:30
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What I mean is that there's been so much fuzz around guys like Contador. He appeared on the Operation Puerto-list, but suddenly and magically disappeared from it again.
Other than that, I agree with you. I also think that about 90 % of the cyclists are doped, and yes, especially Valverde (and pretty much all other Spanish riders) should be kicked out. |
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| roadie |
Posted on 14-02-2008 19:44
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I think synthetic drugs are being developed all the time. The Chinese are at the fore front of development as we speak and this will become more evident post Olympics 2008. We will all be amazed by these previously, unseen and unheard of group of athletes as they blitz major competitions later this year. EPO is becoming less of a drug of choice in cycling. It's now HGH and its variations. Currently testing focuses on EPO and now most of the peleton is aware of this, most of those seeking an edge will likely move into more unchartered territory. Cycling has never been a clean sport and it will always remain so. It stands side by side with Athletics, Weight lifting, Swimming in this respect. |
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 14-02-2008 20:09
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Aquarius wrote:
Is it any convincing to say that Levi belongs to the few riders who can develop superhuman powers (wattages) in the mountains but who've not been caught (yet, hopefully).
Wattages can be a misleading thing. On the stage that Landis won the tour (long breakaway) his wattages that day were not outside the range he displayed in training. This comes from Allen Lim who is now working for Slipstream and was Landis' coach at that time. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-02-2008 20:14
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Tour de France Champion
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Cadel Evans says he likes to read the wattages that are published online because he says they're so far from the truth they're laughable (for those who don't know, the wattages aren't official. all of them are estimates)
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| roadie |
Posted on 14-02-2008 20:19
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Try explaining that to the group of cyclists in the break away that was 13 minutes up the road. I watched an interview with Stuart O'Grady who happend to be in the break that day.He said....and I quote.... "He caught us...and rode away like I was a little kid and....I'm not a bad bike rider..".....
It was obvious to the world that he was rating through the roof...
Edited by roadie on 14-02-2008 20:20
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| roadie |
Posted on 14-02-2008 20:30
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The only wattage I know that is undisputed , was that of Miguel Indurain..
The guy could power a small city for 3 weeks with his VO2. Not even the likes of Armstrong in his peak, could come even close |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 14-02-2008 20:59
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World Champion
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roadie wrote:
I think synthetic drugs are being developed all the time. The Chinese are at the fore front of development as we speak and this will become more evident post Olympics 2008. We will all be amazed by these previously, unseen and unheard of group of athletes as they blitz major competitions later this year. EPO is becoming less of a drug of choice in cycling. It's now HGH and its variations. Currently testing focuses on EPO and now most of the peleton is aware of this, most of those seeking an edge will likely move into more unchartered territory. Cycling has never been a clean sport and it will always remain so. It stands side by side with Athletics, Weight lifting, Swimming in this respect.
Now the Chinese is a very interesting scenario. They're following the East German model, and whether that includes doping, we don't know. But it is a very extreme regime for the olympics. They believe that whoever does the most training will win. So Western coaches drafted in have left, because all the Chinese want is work - they don't care that the Western coaches say that athletes perform better with rests - athletes don't get breaks, they work for 8 hours a day, and if they don't perform, or slack a little, they get chucked out, and lose there salary. So China doesn't produce its best athletes, the ones with greatest potential harnessed - it just produces the ones who can endure the longest.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 02:51
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| roadie |
Posted on 14-02-2008 21:48
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Well Crommy,
the Asian Games about 8 years ago, proved my theory. Chinese athletes that had not recorded decent times for many years, were winning races by minutes and by metres. It threw huge doubt over their program and was then confirmed by the presence of the Chinese Womens Swimming Team. Completely, ripped, bulked up and no doubt hiding penis and testicles.
Rank outsiders, that broke 6 long standing world records during the games. Their track cycling program also needs closer scrutiny. They've been wining a fair bit in the World Cup and the WC of late.
Time will tell |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 14-02-2008 22:34
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World Champion
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I'm agreeing with you. Except you have better evidence. I'm just adding in the other ubbish they are doing which doesn't benefit the sport in any way
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| roadie |
Posted on 14-02-2008 23:04
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well the only way for there to be a level playing field in professional sport is to let everyone take drugs.. |
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| matt493 |
Posted on 14-02-2008 23:23
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but you know you can't do that. |
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| Viborg FF |
Posted on 14-02-2008 23:30
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Under 23
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And the poor teams will not could afford the dope :cry: |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 15-02-2008 08:29
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Tour de France Champion
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Contador has now stated that he's going to focus on the Vuelta and the Olympics.
Astana is welcome at the Vuelta, Unipublic has said, but according to some rumours it's just a matter of time before ASO buys Unipublic - and I suppose that would mean no invitation to Astana  |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-02-2008 08:30
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Is it any convincing to say that Levi belongs to the few riders who can develop superhuman powers (wattages) in the mountains but who've not been caught (yet, hopefully).
Wattages can be a misleading thing. On the stage that Landis won the tour (long breakaway) his wattages that day were not outside the range he displayed in training. This comes from Allen Lim who is now working for Slipstream and was Landis' coach at that time. "can be". It's more a matter of interpreting them properly than to say that's not a trustable information. 
Landis power in that stage didn't peak that high (yet it was abnormal), but, it was maintained at a high level during way too long to be trustable. You can't maintain your max power (that 410 W limit) for ever and ever. Which Landis sort of did.
issoisso wrote:
Cadel Evans says he likes to read the wattages that are published online because he says they're so far from the truth they're laughable (for those who don't know, the wattages aren't official. all of them are estimates) Well, if he is refering to those from cyclismag, it's an estimation, and I'd say it's close to be more significant/easier to interpret than real wattages (measured by SRM system). I'm saying that because real wattages need to be related to the total weight (rider + equipement + bike) which variates throughout a climb.
And of course, estimations like cyclismag perform consider the weight of a rider is 70 kg and its equipement + bike weigh 8 kg. That's the only way to compare powers between two riders with different weights and on different climbs.
And, naturally, there's an error margin, but the margin is smaller than 20% (about what Riis achieved above human limits, yes he was doped  ops: ).
Edited by Aquarius on 15-02-2008 08:30
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| Crommy |
Posted on 15-02-2008 09:25
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World Champion
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roadie wrote:
well the only way for there to be a level playing field in professional sport is to let everyone take drugs..
No - as it would come down to who had the best drugs regime, not who was the best athlete.
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| rodda |
Posted on 15-02-2008 09:35
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and that would probably see quite a large spike in cycling deaths
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-02-2008 10:12
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Crommy wrote:
roadie wrote:
well the only way for there to be a level playing field in professional sport is to let everyone take drugs..
No - as it would come down to who had the best drugs regime, not who was the best athlete. There's at least one thing to add : not all people react the same to dope. Two people equally strong and clean won't necessarily remain as strong if they take the same dope and keep training the same.
Something else : I'm not really too fond of paying the social security in my country so that it gets money to heal some fools who took too much dope that they wouldn't have taken hadn't their federation allowed them. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 15-02-2008 10:25
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Tour de France Champion
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Aquarius wrote:
paying the social security in my country so that it gets money to heal
Our american friends don't have that problem 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| issoisso |
Posted on 15-02-2008 10:27
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Tour de France Champion
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Aquarius wrote:
Well, if he is refering to those from cyclismag, it's an estimation, and I'd say it's close to be more significant/easier to interpret than real wattages (measured by SRM system). I'm saying that because real wattages need to be related to the total weight (rider + equipement + bike) which variates throughout a climb.
And of course, estimations like cyclismag perform consider the weight of a rider is 70 kg and its equipement + bike weigh 8 kg. That's the only way to compare powers between two riders with different weights and on different climbs.
And, naturally, there's an error margin, but the margin is smaller than 20% (about what Riis achieved above human limits, yes he was doped ops: ).
I think he was referring to all wattages in general, but I can't be sure. He did however say that even a very small (5 watts) mistake in the estimation is a big difference between riders
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 15-02-2008 11:03
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I simulated an Alpe d'Huez climb there :
https://www.awsoft...montee.htm
410 W means you climb it in 42'09", 415 W means 41'44".
25 seconds difference on the final mountain. Let's say there's an average of 3 mountains like that in a TDF, you lost more than 1 minute. That's the difference between a final win and a podium position. It's a lot for Evans, yes, but on 3500 km, that's quite relative.
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