|
Doping
|
| Kompakt |
Posted on 10-01-2009 16:20
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: 23-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
fenian_1234 wrote:
I just realized I posted a comment here. Broke a resolution of mine.
The only way to enjoy watching cycling is to forget all about the dope, imo.
I've come dangerously close to giving up on the TdF the last few years because they're making it impossible to forget....
Give me a CERA infested Giro with no failed tests any week of the year. 
Sorry but i really don't get your statement, would you also not care if someone had a motor attached to their bike?. Imo doping must be fought at all costs as it destroys the competitive balance, which is the very foundation of sports.
I hope that in 2009 many dopers will get caught and that the bans will be longer, so we hopefully won't se them ever racing again. I also hope that the new blood passports will be effective, so that the risk of getting caught increases and the benefits from doping decreases.
Issoisso may call me a bit naive, but I see some point of improvement, various riders speak openly against the omerta and I think the doped riders has been easier to spot (i guess noone was really shocked that Sella, Ricco, Schumacher, Kohl etc. got caught as they suddenly raised their relative level a lot). |
| |
|
|
| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 11-01-2009 01:04
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4790
Joined: 06-12-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
The difference with a motor attached to a bike is that you can see it, and there's no doubt there's a motor there.
You might say the same about dope, but imo, that would be incredibly stupid. For every Sella, Ricco and Schumacher, there's a Cavendish, Gilbert and Armstrong... 
Anyway, as I said, the only way for me to enjoy it is forget about it. It's there FULL STOP. And it's not going away any time soon.
Best ride of the last few years? Landis on his way to Morzine.
Worst moment of the last few years? His failed test.
Go figure.
|
| |
|
|
| Deadpool |
Posted on 11-01-2009 01:12
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 06-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
fenian_1234 wrote:
The difference with a motor attached to a bike is that you can see it, and there's no doubt there's a motor there.
You might say the same about dope, but imo, that would be incredibly stupid. For every Sella, Ricco and Schumacher, there's a Cavendish, Gilbert and Armstrong...
Anyway, as I said, the only way for me to enjoy it is forget about it. It's there FULL STOP. And it's not going away any time soon.
Best ride of the last few years? Landis on his way to Morzine.
Worst moment of the last few years? His failed test.
Go figure.
Thats ridiculous, if that worked then the entire world could just forget about cancer and it would go away.
Also, Hamilton in '03 with the broken collarbone is the best ride of the last few years |
| |
|
|
| rjc_43 |
Posted on 11-01-2009 01:30
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Personally, I believe the best rides of the last century have been made by hard men, tough men, men who keep pushing their bodies, minds, souls, to the limits. Who am I talking about? Those plucky, unlucky few who get dropped on a mountain stage on the first climb after 20km and face 180km solo to just try and finish the stage, in the pure hope, for the sole reason they began to cycle, just so they can say they did one more day in the tour de france. That, my friends, are the best rides.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
| |
|
|
| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 11-01-2009 02:41
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4790
Joined: 06-12-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
I think you've completely and utterly missed the point, Deadpool.
And rjc, the "hard men, tough men, men who keep pushing their bodies, minds, souls, to the limits" are not just the losers.
The winners are exactly the same kind of riders - but yes, I agree, it's far harder to push yourself and keep going when you've no chance of victory.
Anyway, no more 'doping' posts for me this year. |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 11:56
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 11-01-2009 03:07
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
This year? I doubt that, fenian |
| |
|
|
| Kompakt |
Posted on 11-01-2009 05:21
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: 23-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
fenian_1234 wrote:
The difference with a motor attached to a bike is that you can see it, and there's no doubt there's a motor there.
You might say the same about dope, but imo, that would be incredibly stupid. For every Sella, Ricco and Schumacher, there's a Cavendish, Gilbert and Armstrong...
Anyway, as I said, the only way for me to enjoy it is forget about it. It's there FULL STOP. And it's not going away any time soon.
Best ride of the last few years? Landis on his way to Morzine.
Worst moment of the last few years? His failed test.
Go figure.
"Living is easy with eyes closed..." |
| |
|
|
| mb2612 |
Posted on 11-01-2009 08:12
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Kompakt wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:
The difference with a motor attached to a bike is that you can see it, and there's no doubt there's a motor there.
You might say the same about dope, but imo, that would be incredibly stupid. For every Sella, Ricco and Schumacher, there's a Cavendish, Gilbert and Armstrong...
Anyway, as I said, the only way for me to enjoy it is forget about it. It's there FULL STOP. And it's not going away any time soon.
Best ride of the last few years? Landis on his way to Morzine.
Worst moment of the last few years? His failed test.
Go figure.
"Living is easy with eyes closed..."
No it isn't, you just keep walking into walls
and on topic: My best ride was Voekler
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 11-01-2009 09:21
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Kompakt wrote:
Issoisso may call me a bit naive
Not at all.
Kompakt wrote:
various riders speak openly against the omerta and I think the doped riders has been easier to spot (i guess noone was really shocked that Sella, Ricco, Schumacher, Kohl etc. got caught as they suddenly raised their relative level a lot).
Really? speak openly? I see the vast majority still pretending as if they did it all alone so they can get a job when they come back. |
| |
|
|
| TheGooseIsCooked |
Posted on 11-01-2009 14:57
|
Amateur
Posts: 20
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Mads Kaggestad was not on drugs and he had a high level of performance |
| |
|
|
| Wiggo |
Posted on 11-01-2009 14:58
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3212
Joined: 07-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
No more Mads Kaggestad jokes. Ever. |
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 11-01-2009 15:20
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
fenian_1234 wrote:
The difference with a motor attached to a bike is that you can see it, and there's no doubt there's a motor there.
You might say the same about dope, but imo, that would be incredibly stupid. For every Sella, Ricco, Schumacher, and Armstrong there's a Cavendish, Gilbert...
Anyway, as I said, the only way for me to enjoy it is forget about it. It's there FULL STOP. And it's not going away any time soon.
Best ride of the last few years? Landis on his way to Morzine.
Worst moment of the last few years? His failed test.
Go figure.
Looks much, much, much better this way.  |
| |
|
|
| rjc_43 |
Posted on 20-05-2009 18:41
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I looked through several pages of threads to see where would be best to put this post, and this looked like the best place to high-jack a thread. I didn't want to make a new one.
I'm currently doing some Uni coursework that requires a fair bit of journal checking out, in other words looking through 100+ journals for the one study that supports what you want to say just so you can say it with proof. (Surprisingly there aren't many studies that say if you just ride your bike you get fit...)
I happened to come across an interesting study to do with doping...
This is the abstract for the study (in other words the blurb on the back of a book).
A method for the detection of administered recombinant human erythropoietin (rhEpo) in the blood and urine of healthy individuals was evaluated. The method is based upon the observation that the electric charge of the rhEpo molecule is less negative than that of endogenous Epo. Fifteen healthy males were treated with subcutaneous injections of 20 IU rhEpo per kg body weight three times a week for 7-9 wk. The charge of Epo in blood and concentrates of urine was determined by electrophoresis in 0.10% agarose suspension expressed as electrophoretic mobility. rhEpo was detected in serum at 24 h after injection in all 15 individuals, at 48 h in 18 of 20 samples from 11 individuals, and at 72 h in 7 of 9 individuals. In urine the rhEpo was detected in all 22 samples taken from 11 individuals up to 24 h after injection and in 9 of 12 samples from 3 individuals at 48 h after injection. rhEpo was not detected in serum or urine at 1-3 wk after the last injection. The charge of both rhEpo and endogenous Epo in urine was more negative (P < 0.001; P < 0.01) than in the paired serum samples. It is suggested that the principle of this method should be further evaluated for use in doping control.
Isn't it interesting how EPO can no longer be detected 1-3 weeks after injection, and even 48 hours later it isn't a 100% success rate, and yet the physiological advantages remain for longer - especially so considering CERA is out and about, and the next generation EPO is in development.
I found the article interesting, so just thought I'd share. Enjoy.
(Wide, L., Bengtsson, C., Berglund, B., & Ekblom, B. (1995). Detection in blood and urine of recombinant erythropoietin administered to healthy men. Med Sci Sports Exerc, 27(11), 1569-1576.)
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 20-05-2009 18:48
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
This one reminded me ..where is Aquarius? ..he was good at this stuff..not has doper but guy who you should read. |
| |
|
|
| ladagnous |
Posted on 20-05-2009 18:59
|
Stagiare
Posts: 214
Joined: 21-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
it is known to scientist that EPO breaks down in the blood over time, that is why doper wait a long time until they ask for the counter analysis.
Ladagnous won Tropicale cycliste Amissa Bongo  |
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 20-05-2009 19:06
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Guido Mukk wrote:
This one reminded me ..where is Aquarius? ..he was good at this stuff..not has doper but guy who you should read.
He's still around although not as often. Last visit was on 2nd of May. |
| |
|
|
| mb2612 |
Posted on 20-05-2009 19:06
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
This came out in 1995 so I am not sure how relavent it is to current EPO derivatives and the current test but it is still a very interesting result
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
| |
|
|
| E_Hagen |
Posted on 20-05-2009 19:27
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1118
Joined: 10-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Shouldn't surprise me if the doper-shelter of LPR soon will be discovered. |
| |
|
|
| alexkr00 |
Posted on 20-05-2009 19:29
|
World Champion
Posts: 13915
Joined: 05-08-2008
PCM$: 300.00
|
LPR aren't doped. Even they have a very good performance in Giro at this time, Di Luca and Petacchi are top riders, who built their whole season for Giro.
|
| |
|
|
| E_Hagen |
Posted on 20-05-2009 19:33
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1118
Joined: 10-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Danilo Di Cera and Alessandro Epotacchi  |
| |
|
