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Another dead cyclist
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| Podium place |
Posted on 12-05-2008 20:55
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Stagiare
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R.I.P
Chelsea for ever!
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| issoisso |
Posted on 13-05-2008 14:47
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Word going around is that he didn't die from the fall, but from a heart failure that caused the fall. If that's true, I'll be pretty pissed. To think I actually felt sorry for the bastard...
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| p3druh |
Posted on 14-05-2008 17:46
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issoisso wrote:
Word going around is that he didn't die from the fall, but from a heart failure that caused the fall. If that's true, I'll be pretty pissed. To think I actually felt sorry for the bastard...
Don't you think you should wait until the autopsy results are revealed before taking such conclusions?
Heart failure doesn't necessarily mean doping... And from what his friends told me, he was extremely passionate about cycling and would never think of resorting to doping to enhance his performances... And, from what I knew of him from the one time I met him, I have to say I agree...
Go ahead and call me naive but I truly believe in him...
I know it's cliché to come out and say "oh he was a great person" or "he was an angel" but this time it's the truth...
For all he did, for the person that he was and for all that he will now never achieve, I think we owe him as much as the benefit of the doubt...
Edited by p3druh on 14-05-2008 17:53
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-05-2008 18:03
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p3druh wrote:
Don't you think you should wait until the autopsy results are revealed before taking such conclusions?
re-read my post. notice the "IF"
p3druh wrote:
Heart failure doesn't necessarily mean doping...
On a man who is tested for this very regularly. He had no heart defects. A sudden cardio-respiratory stop doesn't leave much room to doubt.
p3druh wrote:
And from what his friends told me, he was extremely passionate about cycling and would never think of resorting to doping to enhance his performances... And, from what I knew of him from the one time I met him, I have to say I agree...
Go ahead and call me naive but I truly believe in him...
I know it's cliché to come out and say "oh he was a great person" or "he was an angel" but this time it's the truth...
For all he did, for the person that he was and for all that he will now never achieve, I think we owe him as much as the benefit of the doubt...
Sérgio Ribeiro's nephew is a classmate of mine. I've met Sérgio and he's one of the best people I've ever met in every way. truly a great guy in every sense of the word.
He's also currently suspended for doping.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| p3druh |
Posted on 15-05-2008 16:17
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issoisso wrote:
p3druh wrote:
Don't you think you should wait until the autopsy results are revealed before taking such conclusions?
re-read my post. notice the "IF"
"To think I actually felt sorry for the bastard..." No ifs there...
issoisso wrote:p3druh wrote:
Heart failure doesn't necessarily mean doping...
On a man who is tested for this very regularly. He had no heart defects. A sudden cardio-respiratory stop doesn't leave much room to doubt.
Yes, but doping is not always the cause of cardio-respiratory stops... Even in professional sports, where they are tested very often... Just look at Feher's case... He was tested every other month...
issoisso wrote:p3druh wrote:
And from what his friends told me, he was extremely passionate about cycling and would never think of resorting to doping to enhance his performances... And, from what I knew of him from the one time I met him, I have to say I agree...
Go ahead and call me naive but I truly believe in him...
I know it's cliché to come out and say "oh he was a great person" or "he was an angel" but this time it's the truth...
For all he did, for the person that he was and for all that he will now never achieve, I think we owe him as much as the benefit of the doubt...
Sérgio Ribeiro's nephew is a classmate of mine. I've met Sérgio and he's one of the best people I've ever met in every way. truly a great guy in every sense of the word.
He's also currently suspended for doping.
I don't know him personally so I have no choice but to believe you... But I still find it hard to believe, in Bruno's case... And I'm not saying that he didn't dope... I don't believe he did but I can't promise that he didn't... I'm just saying that he is innocent until proven guilty...
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| issoisso |
Posted on 15-05-2008 16:53
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p3druh wrote:
"To think I actually felt sorry for the bastard..." No ifs there...
Of course not. On the previous sentence "If that's true", however...
p3druh wrote:
Yes, but doping is not always the cause of cardio-respiratory stops... Even in professional sports, where they are tested very often... Just look at Feher's case... He was tested every other month...
And he had a sudden stop where no heart condition was ever found. how peculiar 
p3druh wrote:
I don't know him personally so I have no choice but to believe you... But I still find it hard to believe, in Bruno's case... And I'm not saying that he didn't dope... I don't believe he did but I can't promise that he didn't... I'm just saying that he is innocent until proven guilty...
I'm not disputing that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. However I won't feel sorry for him if it turns out to be the case...
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| p3druh |
Posted on 15-05-2008 16:59
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issoisso wrote:
p3druh wrote:
Yes, but doping is not always the cause of cardio-respiratory stops... Even in professional sports, where they are tested very often... Just look at Feher's case... He was tested every other month...
And he had a sudden stop where no heart condition was ever found. how peculiar
Drug tests were made and nothing was found... And you can't say that every 20/30 year old that suffers a cardio-respiratory problem is on drugs... Like I said, I'm not saying he didn't... I just don't think we can jump to that conclusion so promptly...
issoisso wrote:
p3druh wrote:
I don't know him personally so I have no choice but to believe you... But I still find it hard to believe, in Bruno's case... And I'm not saying that he didn't dope... I don't believe he did but I can't promise that he didn't... I'm just saying that he is innocent until proven guilty...
I'm not disputing that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. However I won't feel sorry for him if it turns out to be the case...
Of course... I will still think he was a great man... But I will no longer feel sad for his departure...
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| p3druh |
Posted on 30-09-2008 21:26
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I'm sure that most of you don't remember this case but this was the case the began the whole doping investigation that supposedly gave the investigators enough ground to admit that the whole team had doping products in their possession and that the whole team had consumed doping products at one point or another.
But that's not the important part. What matters here is that the death of Bruno Neves was reported by the authorities as being a consequence of doping abuse (they even went as far as saying he took doping in the same race he died in).
The autopsy results have now made the family sue every single media that was prompt to say that Bruno was a doper. Not only that, they are even considering suing the police authorities involved in the investigations.
To make a long story short, even after a ton of pressure from some shady characters of the portuguese cycling world, the family are going through with this in hope of cleaning Bruno's name. This could also have implications on the remainder of the LA/MSS doping scandal because the biggest assumption the accusation rested on has now been completely wiped out.
Just as long as they get a public apology from every single newspaper, radio, TV, etc. I'm happy. And I'm sure the whole family will be too.
Edited by p3druh on 30-09-2008 21:28
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2008 21:47
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Considering his lung problems could easily be caused by steroid use and his heart problems by EPO, I can't see one court giving his family a favourable decision.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| p3druh |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:02
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I really don't know much about the subject (doping), but wouldn't EPO and steroid use show up on the tox screens?
Or are you talking about a supposed damage done by those two products along the years?
Anyway, I was talking with a friend of mine who is a lawyer and he says that this is an easy case for any lawyer. Even the old "innocent until proven guilty" cliché would be enough if properly played.
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Posted on 24-11-2024 06:15
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:10
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p3druh wrote:
I really don't know much about the subject (doping), but wouldn't EPO and steroid use show up on the tox screens?
1. "Tox screens" are dope tests like the ones that are used in cycling....you know the ones that rarely detect anything 
2. He was only tested for steroids and recreational drugs
3. The test was done way too late to detect any of them whether he took them or not.
p3druh wrote:
Or are you talking about a supposed damage done by those two products along the years?
Yes I am.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| p3druh |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:21
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Apparently Dr.LuÃs Horta (I'm sure you know him) was very interested in this case and followed it thoroughly. Apparently he said that the chances of Bruno being doped when he died or having used doping products at any other time are slim to none.
If the guy who leads the hunt against doping (particularly in cycling) in Portugal and who is always saying that cycling is one of the dirtiest sports says a thing like that, I think we have no choice but believe he is right...
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| Wiggo |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:22
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Fuck. R.I.P. Condolonces to all his family and friends. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:23
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If a guy on that team has never taken drugs and you believe that, I have ocean-front land in Castelo Branco for you to buy.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| p3druh |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:32
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I'm not that naive. I know the story of every single member of the team and Manuel Zeferino's reputation.
But Bruno is a person who I dealt with indirectly, whom I met once and one of the nicest persons I have ever met. He was a great professional and a great man. A responsible, caring person who valued his family above all. In love with his job and never too busy or focused on his own goals to help a friend/team-mate. I know a few of his friends and they all looked up at him. And honestly, so did I.
Understand that it's hard to believe that he did dope, and I won't believe otherwise unless irrefutable proof comes along.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:35
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Yes, that's the most overused argument in the history of doping "but he's an awesome person, so nice and so honest"
Yes. And I can name dozens of riders like that who were caught. Can you name many people like that who do software piracy? Of course you can. To them doping is just like software piracy: "Everyone does it, it's no big deal at all".
Michel Pollentier died in poverty after giving most of his fortune to poverty. He was caught positive on a Tour stage. That's one example out of hundreds I could've pulled out of an incredibly giving, honest and nice person who doped.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| p3druh |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:44
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For every example you give I'm sure there are 1000 examples of someone who was against doping and always played it clean (even though most never amounted to anything in their careers).
Believe me, you won't understand. If you had met him you'd understand. This is not one of those cases of "X is not doped because I like him". This is more like "X is not doped because most evidence point to him not being doped and no one has been able to prove that he did dope (or at least put it past hypothetical situations)"
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:49
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The thing is, you say if I'd met him I'd understand. That is what I'm debating.
That "he wouldn't do it because of his personality" Is the most overused thought in these situations, but reality debunks it. It just does.
To these men there IS NOTHING WRONG WITH DOPING. It's normal, natural and furthermore they feel entitled to it and are extremely angry when someone suggests they should be punished for it.
No matter how honest you are, you will not avoid doing something you don't see a problem with.
EDIT: also, there aren't thousands of examples for each one that doped. Quite the contrary, the idea that doping is wrong is quite recent. To this day, the majority of reactions of riders that are caught is to strike and protest over being caught red-handed.
Edited by issoisso on 30-09-2008 22:50
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| p3druh |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:52
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That's the point, he did have a problem with doping. Just ask the "rocket" about it...
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2008 22:55
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"The rocket"? Explain
You do realise many of the riders who have been caught are outspoken against doping, right? Many of them have even made large donations of money to the UCI and testing programs and regularly talk against doping. Because it makes them seem suspicion-free.
Edited by issoisso on 30-09-2008 22:55
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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