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UCI VS. ASO
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-03-2008 22:49
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Tour de France Champion
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Deadpool wrote:
it would make the team ranking relevant
how?
It would be a measure of popularity. "This team is spanish. we're a spanish race. let's invite them because it's good publicity for us"
Edited by issoisso on 05-03-2008 22:49
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 05-03-2008 22:50
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Grand Tour Champion
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issoisso wrote:
You know what the problem with the old system is? The 5-6 biggest races are fully contested and all other races have half or more of the teams going "hi. we're here on a training ride. We'll be going full gas in only about 3 races all season. Exciting, isn't it?"
That leaves us with 5-6 races that are brilliant to watch.
ProTour leaves us with a bunch of neutered one-day classics, a couple of boring stage races (Eneco Tour, Pais Vasco, im looking at you two), and three grand tours without enough presence of half-assed run down teams from the country its held in.
I prefer the old system over ProTour, Period.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-03-2008 22:52
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Tour de France Champion
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Waghlon wrote:
That leaves us with 5-6 races that are brilliant to watch.
In what, 500? wow. great.
Waghlon wrote:
ProTour leaves us with a bunch of neutered one-day classics, a couple of boring stage races (Eneco Tour, Pais Vasco, im looking at you two)
You just named one race which is consistently extremely exciting and unpredictable. Also, name "a bunch" of one-day classics where a few different teams do nothing...
Waghlon wrote:
, and three grand tours without enough presence of half-assed run down teams from the country its held in.
I prefer the old system over ProTour, Period.
yes, I believe the casual fan would.
Edited by issoisso on 05-03-2008 22:53
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-03-2008 22:56
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Tour de France Champion
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Also, you're making a very false assumption: that a quality field of riders makes for an exciting race. on the other hand, as last year's classics show, it's the opposite: the peloton is far too strong for any attacks to work.
Which ironically was the assumption the ProTour was built on.
Edited by issoisso on 05-03-2008 22:57
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 05-03-2008 22:58
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
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issoisso wrote:
Waghlon wrote:
ProTour leaves us with a bunch of neutered one-day classics, a couple of boring stage races (Eneco Tour, Pais Vasco, im looking at you two)
You just named one race which is consistently extremely exciting and unpredictable. Also, name "a bunch" of one-day classics where a few different teams do nothing...
Euskatel in the spring classics and Bouygues at any race thats not french are actually the only two i can mention without thinking excessively. And granted there are some teams which actually tries in every race.
Also, dont lie to yourself about Eneco Tour. Or Pais Vasco. I find them both to be filler material.
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 05-03-2008 23:00
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Grand Tour Champion
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issoisso wrote:
Also, you're making a very false assumption: that a quality field of riders makes for an exciting race.
Actually not. I prefer and want to have a field made of 50% quality and 50% national crap-riders. Something which the ProTour cant provide.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-03-2008 23:08
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Tour de France Champion
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Waghlon wrote:
Euskatel in the spring classics
Had a man in a breakaway or a man in the final group of leaders in each of those six races. In more than one case had both those things.
Waghlon wrote:
and Bouygues at any race thats not french
See what I wrote above.
Waghlon wrote:
Or Pais Vasco. I find them both to be filler material.
That shows an enormous amount of ignorance and above all you're being presumptuous. It's clear you don't ever watch the race yet you claim "it's filler"
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 05-03-2008 23:09
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Grand Tour Champion
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All right, so lets hypothetically say you are right on all points Isso: Where do you see professional cycling in 10 years if we follow your ideas and thoughts?
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 22:49
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-03-2008 23:11
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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Waghlon wrote:
All right, so lets hypothetically say you are right on all points Isso: Where do you see professional cycling in 10 years if we follow your ideas and thoughts?
I find it interesting you don't even want me to present those ideas first. Clearly you're assuming them to be certain ideas, right off the bat.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 05-03-2008 23:30
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If you guys have an indepth idea for a system, please share it, otherwise lay off knocking other peoples proposals. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-03-2008 07:18
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Tour de France Champion
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Deadpool wrote:
If you guys have an indepth idea for a system, please share it, otherwise lay off knocking other peoples proposals.
It's called "discussing". You presented it and I was presenting my views on it.
knocking it would be "are you stupid, that would never work. it's a dumb idea" or some other random idiocy of the kind
Edited by issoisso on 06-03-2008 07:18
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 06-03-2008 07:52
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Grand Tour Champion
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issoisso wrote:
I find it interesting you don't even want me to present those ideas first. Clearly you're assuming them to be certain ideas, right off the bat.
If i didnt assume you had those ideas, we wouldnt be having this argument in the first place really.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-03-2008 08:07
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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Waghlon wrote:
issoisso wrote:
I find it interesting you don't even want me to present those ideas first. Clearly you're assuming them to be certain ideas, right off the bat.
If i didnt assume you had those ideas, we wouldnt be having this argument in the first place really.
Fair enough then. it seems I misunderstood your post.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 06-03-2008 12:08
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Team Leader
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So I have another question, should Pat McQuaid be kicked out?
I say yes. |
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| kida |
Posted on 06-03-2008 13:00
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Domestique
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Waghlon wrote:
a couple of boring stage races (Eneco Tour, Pais Vasco, im looking at you two)
you think that the tour of Poland is more interesting than Pais Vasco?
Edited by kida on 06-03-2008 13:01
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 06-03-2008 13:01
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Team Leader
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I think cycling should be abolished. Made illegal all through the world. The deaths it has caused and injuries to people is far too heavy a toll on the worlds resources. Not to mention the caravan each race has, and all energy used up by cycling. 
*wonders how many people will take the bait*
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 06-03-2008 13:38
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Grand Tour Champion
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kida wrote:
you think that the tour of Poland is more interesting than Pais Vasco?
And the Tour of Poland as well. Maybe i should just list the races i could justify having in PT instead.
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| Hidden |
Posted on 06-03-2008 20:37
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Amateur
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My idea.
4 groups, each containing 8 teams.
The first group of 8 would be for permanent membership granting access to all of the current Pro Tour races. A teams membership to this group would be on the basis that anti-doping is put at the forefront.
Any team with a Rider whose caught doping during a race will have their membership rights withdrawn for a 3 year period effective immediately. Riders who are caught doping outside of races will not cause their teams membership rights not to be withdrawn immediately. Instead the organisation in control of doping will make a decision based on the teams involvement with each case and the number of past cases with the potential threat of membership being withdrawn.
The second group of 8 teams would be based on merit. The 8 teams in this group would be granted access to all current Pro Tour races in that season. At the end of each season the two worst performing teams in the mini league would be demoted to the second tier.
The third group of 8 teams, or second tier, would be based on merit. This group would have at least 3 places for all current races in the Pro Tour season. The top two teams in the mini league would be promoted to the first tier while the bottom team would be demoted to the third tier.
If a team does not wish to be promoted it can opt to remain in it's group allowing the team below them to take their place.
The fourth group would contain upto 8 teams, or third tier, would be based on merit. This group would have at least 1 place for all current races on the Pro Tour season. Every team wishing to apply for a place in a Pro Tour race would have to at least be in this bottom group.
Each place for a team in the bottom two tiers would be selected by wild card basis. As there are up to 6 places available for these teams are 2 extra places could go to any of the teams who are refused a wild card at the first stage of application. Potentially allowing 5 teams from the second tier to compete in a Pro Tour race, or if a race organiser would prefer, allowing 3 teams from the third tier to compete in a Pro Tour race.
This should give a fairly even spread giving the race organizer's significant freedom to choose the teams they would prefer while preserving the initial principles of the Pro Tour. The only problem is working out a fair way to rank the teams. |
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 06-03-2008 21:25
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Team Leader
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Great idea.
However, it probably would have the hardest time getting through the UCI of all the ideas proposed. |
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| sakai5 |
Posted on 07-03-2008 00:44
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Stagiare
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First, i think it's important to find the problems.
1) Who chooses who or who has the right to choose.
2) There are all round teams, classic teams and grand tour teams.
3) There are riders' preferences in each individual team
4) There is a league based in points (UCI table)
5)...(The list isn't finish but i think these are the big points).
The solution i think is to form a VIP list. What i'm trying to say is that the first 3 teams or riders (which criteria to choose?) will have their assents in the next event. And the others to gain it will have to compete in a minor league.
So the first league are the BIG classics or the Grand tours. And then we can have Tour of California, TDU, Pais Vasco, etc..(Pais Vasco for example could be in the minor league for the GRAND tours).
But you can ask me where the 3 top teams will compete. And i answer i don't know! There will be a league? (i don't know. Maybe not and probably the better rider of the season will award with the rainbow jersey)
Note: For the BIG classics maybe one day race and stage race will be splited.
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