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Issues wuth progression system
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| perot |
Posted on 30-06-2015 08:08
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Under 23
Posts: 87
Joined: 31-03-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Eyolfur by pm confirmed me that age of decline is now useless and will not have any effect ...
But he does not want to explain more the progression system |
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| skylax |
Posted on 30-06-2015 15:17
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Under 23
Posts: 57
Joined: 11-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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But he does not want to explain more the progression system
They probably don't know themselves how it works. I was able to identify 2 values in the DB that seem to have an effect on rider's progression (value_f_gain, value_capital or something similar, I am not at home to check out). Value_f_gain should be high and value_capital should be as low as possible. I have no idea of how to effect those values within the game. However, value_f_gain seems to be connected to potential, although there are way too many exceptions to make this a rule.
Value_capital seems to be connected to how far a rider has already developped. The connection seems to be more obvious than for value_f_gain.
The progression seems to be hardcoded, which is an awful design decision. And from what I have observed from 8 tests I ran with the same riders (or edited ideal/non-ideal riders), it is completely arbitrary, which is even worse. I am pretty sure that each rider just get's assigned a random multiplier for their development that you can't find out, because the editor won't tell you. In the last PCMs it was different, there was a level of 1-5 for development speed, which was a lot better in my opinion. At least the user could understand how it works, now you don't know whether your rider has a potential of 5 or 8, you don't know his maximal values and you have no clue about his development speed. That might be somewhat more realistic, but since development speed overall is extremely low (also for AI-riders), it is just bothersome. |
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| maaarsh |
Posted on 01-07-2015 16:53
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Under 23
Posts: 51
Joined: 20-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Middle of 2nd season now and the three 8 potential riders in my team have each had 1 improvement (i.e. +1 in 3 or 4 stat categories each) over that time. At this rate my 20 year old cobble talent will be ready to have a crack at Roubaix when he's 33.
The really annoying thing is how this problem doesn't exist at all with Be-a-Pro where progression for your own team and others is far more sensible. |
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| Muggert |
Posted on 01-07-2015 18:43
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 287
Joined: 07-07-2008
PCM$: 300.00
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https://forums.let...20#p586453
From what I can understand, Eyolfur confirms there's a problem with user controlled riders. Can someone with a better french understanding confirm? :-) |
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| Vittus |
Posted on 01-07-2015 20:58
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Amateur
Posts: 11
Joined: 23-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I have tried playing career mode with a Continental team. I'm in third season and my riders have grown 10 points in total. I managed to promote to pro continental, but i have given up on becoming a world tour team 
Edited by Vittus on 01-07-2015 21:00
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| Anderis |
Posted on 01-07-2015 21:05
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Muggert wrote:
https://forums.let...20#p586453
From what I can understand, Eyolfur confirms there's a problem with user controlled riders. Can someone with a better french understanding confirm? :-)
So better not starting a career now before there's a patch fixing it? |
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| skylax |
Posted on 02-07-2015 11:05
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Under 23
Posts: 57
Joined: 11-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Muggert wrote:
https://forums.let...20#p586453
From what I can understand, Eyolfur confirms there's a problem with user controlled riders. Can someone with a better french understanding confirm? :-)
My French isn't perfect but he confirms some issues he contemplated in a save game sent to him with Pierre Rolland who inexplicably lost stats. It has something to do with the trainers.
They will try to solve the issue with the next patch, however, he asks for more saves to be able to tackle the problem and to make it quicker. So please, send your save files with weird problems to Cyanide (maybe even a weekly save before the drop) so they can look into it.
So please, send them your save files! |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 23:05
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Bot Agent
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Joined: 23.11.09
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| maaarsh |
Posted on 02-07-2015 16:31
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Under 23
Posts: 51
Joined: 20-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I hope they don't treat this as an odd bug with early declines, when there is a much broader issues that no one makes a meaningful advance in career mode.
Makes you wonder what game the beta-testers were playing - all busy getting excited about Be-a-Pro and missing this game ruining error? |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 02-07-2015 17:05
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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maaarsh wrote:
Makes you wonder what game the beta-testers were playing - all busy getting excited about Be-a-Pro and missing this game ruining error?
As someone who spent hours and hours in progression tests, your post kind of annoys me.
With the new progression system it was very hard to balance it, in the first test it was way too slow, second too quick, third too slow again, 4th a bit to quick.
Now it's too slow in career. You won't believe how much time I spent on it.
Yeah sorry man but please don't blame the betatesters here, I've tried my best.
It's just the new progression system being extremely hard to implement 100% correctly. The first big patch hasn't taken place yet at all, so it's too early to judge too.
What doesn't help is that people don't 100% understand the new system yet, I mean, I don't understand it fully either.
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| skylax |
Posted on 02-07-2015 18:10
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Under 23
Posts: 57
Joined: 11-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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With the new progression system it was very hard to balance it, in the first test it was way too slow, second too quick, third too slow again, 4th a bit to quick.
Now it's too slow in career. You won't believe how much time I spent on it.
This is the crucial point, you will never get it right! Some people like it slower, some people want a faster progression. What puzzles me is the removal of the mulitplier in the main menu. Everyone could adjust the speed of progression to their liking. This is just one example of horrible design decisions by Cyanide. It is totally unnecessary to bother the beta-testers with this balance issue that has been solved the last couple of years when a new game mode and other changes have to be scrutinized.
The progression works differently now, it seems to depend on the potential rather than the limits for skills (the limits are still there, make no mistake, you just can't see them now) and the relationship to the coach seems to play a role. However, those two factors are of minor influence, there has to be a hardcoded multiplier for each rider that is not accessible through the save game file that is the major factor, represented by value_f_gain and value_capital in the dyn_cyclist database....but again: how are those values created? Nobody knows. Poor documentation.
Edited by skylax on 02-07-2015 18:11
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| maaarsh |
Posted on 02-07-2015 18:41
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Under 23
Posts: 51
Joined: 20-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
maaarsh wrote:
Makes you wonder what game the beta-testers were playing - all busy getting excited about Be-a-Pro and missing this game ruining error?
As someone who spent hours and hours in progression tests, your post kind of annoys me.
With the new progression system it was very hard to balance it, in the first test it was way too slow, second too quick, third too slow again, 4th a bit to quick.
Now it's too slow in career. You won't believe how much time I spent on it.
Yeah sorry man but please don't blame the betatesters here, I've tried my best.
It's just the new progression system being extremely hard to implement 100% correctly. The first big patch hasn't taken place yet at all, so it's too early to judge too.
What doesn't help is that people don't 100% understand the new system yet, I mean, I don't understand it fully either.
Apologies, it's nothing personal, I was just trying to provoke a response as I'm amazed this thread had so few responses - the core game mode is fundamentally broken, but the big weight of the complaints are that BAP progression is too quick. I'm rather worried Cyanide will end up making the problem worse if they follow the sheet weight of posts on this. |
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| Vittus |
Posted on 02-07-2015 19:06
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Amateur
Posts: 11
Joined: 23-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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The beta testers are not at fault here. But i wonder why Cyanide has decide to implement this new progression system.. It took me a couple of days to realise that i didn't work. The old progression system worked fine why not keep it until the new one was working too.
I do like this new form of rating the potential and possible progression a rider can have. If it only worked properly.
Edited by Vittus on 02-07-2015 19:06
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| Lachi |
Posted on 02-07-2015 23:11
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Vittus wrote:
The beta testers are not at fault here. But i wonder why Cyanide has decide to implement this new progression system.. It took me a couple of days to realise that i didn't work. The old progression system worked fine why not keep it until the new one was working too.
I do like this new form of rating the potential and possible progression a rider can have. If it only worked properly.
If they don't change the game you could as well continue to play the old game, not? |
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| Vittus |
Posted on 04-07-2015 11:24
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Amateur
Posts: 11
Joined: 23-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Lachi wrote:
Vittus wrote:
The beta testers are not at fault here. But i wonder why Cyanide has decide to implement this new progression system.. It took me a couple of days to realise that i didn't work. The old progression system worked fine why not keep it until the new one was working too.
I do like this new form of rating the potential and possible progression a rider can have. If it only worked properly.
If they don't change the game you could as well continue to play the old game, not?
i support very much that they change the game and renew it. But i'm just questioning the way it's done. |
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| Muggert |
Posted on 04-07-2015 12:57
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 287
Joined: 07-07-2008
PCM$: 300.00
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I just tried a season with the new patch. I created a custom team with some high potential riders. Gave them an international trainer with the right style.
I think the progression is a lot better than in the last version. For instance Caleb Ewan went from 76 sprint to 80 sprint in 8 months.
Also many of the lower level riders I added to the team progressed pretty well. I think the game is playable at the moment. |
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| Vittus |
Posted on 05-07-2015 12:51
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Amateur
Posts: 11
Joined: 23-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Sounds really good. Looking forward to start a new career |
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| BenjaBabs |
Posted on 07-07-2015 11:24
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Amateur
Posts: 2
Joined: 30-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Muggert wrote:
I just tried a season with the new patch. I created a custom team with some high potential riders. Gave them an international trainer with the right style.
I think the progression is a lot better than in the last version. For instance Caleb Ewan went from 76 sprint to 80 sprint in 8 months.
Also many of the lower level riders I added to the team progressed pretty well. I think the game is playable at the moment.
Have you had more experience with the new patch? Or can other people confirm that the progression system actually is working now? |
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| Muggert |
Posted on 07-07-2015 21:45
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 287
Joined: 07-07-2008
PCM$: 300.00
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From what I've played with my own career in which I'm in august 2016 I feel the riders are progressing well. Even with my national reputation trainers.
I'm satisfied with the progression at the moment :-) |
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| MacC |
Posted on 09-07-2015 16:28
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Sprinter
Posts: 1594
Joined: 15-07-2008
PCM$: 700.00
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Muggert wrote:
https://forums.let...20#p586453
From what I can understand, Eyolfur confirms there's a problem with user controlled riders. Can someone with a better french understanding confirm? :-)
He says the problem seems with the Coach causing a loss of experience
Don't have PCM 15, is there experience levels? |
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| MacC |
Posted on 09-07-2015 16:28
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Sprinter
Posts: 1594
Joined: 15-07-2008
PCM$: 700.00
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Muggert wrote:
https://forums.let...20#p586453
From what I can understand, Eyolfur confirms there's a problem with user controlled riders. Can someone with a better french understanding confirm? :-)
He says the problem seems with the Coach causing a loss of experience
Don't have PCM 15, is there experience levels? |
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