Managed to get a few of the suggestions in the .cdb before DB release
Oh @TankNL:
That's a very interesting project ofc.
Though I don't think it's possible to make all of it accurate. I think you agree with me that Froome is a better climber than Valv, f.e.
It's just impossible to make that work in the cycling world.
For the lesser climbers, this could be quite useful though!
Jesleyh wrote:
Managed to get a few of the suggestions in the .cdb before DB release
Oh @TankNL:
That's a very interesting project ofc.
Though I don't think it's possible to make all of it accurate. I think you agree with me that Froome is a better climber than Valv, f.e.
It's just impossible to make that work in the cycling world.
For the lesser climbers, this could be quite useful though!
@Jesleyh; I know, the top needs tweaking when translating the calculations to actual stats in a db, I did that also, corrected especially the top 10...
But fact is that Valverde has been more consistent in getting points the last 3 years than Froome and Contador. But yes, I agree that he is less of an real climber or even GC rider than Froome.
admirschleck wrote:
Navardauskas was 3rd on Champs Elysee (besides all other great results on the Tour this year), so you can't really say he's not a real sprinter.
While you are right, he doesn't have the same ACC like the "real" sprinters.
At least thats what i think.
He is fast enough to get 77, but to get a more real Navardauskas in the game i think lowering his ACC a bit so he doesn't jump out of a box, but comes with a steady strong sprint instead, would be better.
I don't get the point, i haven't seen his stats in the coming db yet but if it is like Jesleyh said "75" i don't get your frustration, that's not even a good ACC stat in my mind compared to "real sprinters" he wouldn't compete with his current stats on champs or most other stages in the tour against the best, anyway might dominate some smaller races tho.
Edited by Naskela on 23-08-2014 22:14
admirschleck wrote:
Navardauskas was 3rd on Champs Elysee (besides all other great results on the Tour this year), so you can't really say he's not a real sprinter.
While you are right, he doesn't have the same ACC like the "real" sprinters.
At least thats what i think.
He is fast enough to get 77, but to get a more real Navardauskas in the game i think lowering his ACC a bit so he doesn't jump out of a box, but comes with a steady strong sprint instead, would be better.
I don't get the point, i haven't seen his stats in the coming db yet but if it is like Jesleyh said "75" i don't get your frustration, that's not even a good ACC stat in my mind compared to "real sprinters" he wouldn't compete with his current stats on champs or most other stages in the tour against the best!
Where do you get that i should be fustrated? I just want to be sure that he doesn't end up being an almost pure sprinter in the game
I don't know how low the ACC needs to be before it starts effecting your results, but 74-75 seems ok.
In my opinion, Navardauskas SPR 75 and Peraud Mountain 79, maybe he was very good in le Tour de France, but I think that he will be the next Chris Horner.
In my opinion, Navardauskas SPR 75 and Peraud Mountain 79, maybe he was very good in le Tour de France, but I think that he will be the next Chris Horner.
Navardauskas SP 75? How the heck? Do you think he'll be able to ever get a Top 10 on 1st and last TdF 2014 stage with 75 SP? Won't even talk about the podium that he, by the way, achieved in real life.
Contador won the Vuelta in 2012 and did not race last year, and how is his results this year not impressive? he followed and beated Froome in the mountains on several occasions this year. and i doubt Aru could compete against Pinot and Peraud in the tour plus hes young, he should have a possibility to grow.
Contador won the Vuelta in 2012 and did not race last year.
Rodriguez was stronger in the mountains of the Vuelta in 2012. Last year Froome, Quintana and Rodriguez easily from him, I also think they do again this year i vuelta
Again why bring up old results when it has nothing to do with his current form. should Andy Schleck have 83 in mountain stats after his stage on Mont Ventoux in 09?
Edited by Naskela on 24-08-2014 07:52
Contador won the Vuelta in 2012 and did not race last year, and how is his results this year not impressive? he followed and beated Froome in the mountains on several occasions this year. and i doubt Aru could compete against Pinot and Peraud in the tour plus hes young, he should have a possibility to grow.
Rodriguez was stronger in the mountains of the Vuelta in 2012. Last year Froome, Quintana and Rodriguez easily from him, I also think they do again this year i Vuelta. Contador can certainly do well in small races, where Froome and Quintana not form, but in GTs he did not have a chance against them Edited by Arberg27 on 24-08-2014 07:51
Contador won the Vuelta in 2012 and did not race last year, and how is his results this year not impressive? he followed and beated Froome in the mountains on several occasions this year. and i doubt Aru could compete against Pinot and Peraud in the tour plus hes young, he should have a possibility to grow.
Rodriguez was stronger in the mountains of the Vuelta in 2012. Last year Froome, Quintana and Rodriguez easily from him, I also think they do again this year i Vuelta. Contador can certainly do well in small races, where Froome and Quintana not form, but in GTs he did not have a chance against them
His season was ruined because of his suspension so its not fair comparing them in 2012, Conta only races San Luis and Eneco tour that year as well. and he followed Purito pretty well. So i guess you noticed Rodriguez form this year if he is on the same level as the tour should he get 74 in the next db? Even Gastauer was stronger in the mountains.
Edited by Naskela on 24-08-2014 07:57
Vuelta 14, you think? Cool, you are already counting a race that hasn't seen a single mountain yet and which Contador is riding coming back from an major injury.
Bertie was impressive this year. His results, despite lack of a Grand Tour, still see him 2nd in UCI World Tour ranking. He beat both Quintana, Froome and then some in his races. Just because of the crash in Tour doesn't make him any weaker in the mountains themselves, and guy is the real deal (again) when it comes to climbing. But anyhoo, saying his last great achievement is Giro 2011 is weird and frankly, imo, quite biased with the goal of rating him lower than he deserves.
Edited by Shonak on 24-08-2014 10:37
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Vuelta 14, you think? Cool, you are already counting a race that hasn't seen a single mountain yet and which Contador is riding coming back from an major injury.
Bertie was impressive this year. His results, despite lack of a Grand Tour, still see him 2nd in UCI World Tour ranking. He beat both Quintana, Froome and then some in his races. Just because of the crash in Tour doesn't make him any weaker in the mountains themselves, and guy is the real deal (again) when it comes to climbing. But anyhoo, saying his last great achievement is Giro 2011 is weird and frankly, imo, quite biased with the goal of rating him lower than he deserves.
but this is the actual problem with the stats discussion in a nutshell... you support or would like to see that Contador is doing good. He has a big number of injuries, so in big GT's he's not able to perform a the highest level. We all know the Contador is a very good climber...
but injuries are a part of the sport and therefor affect the ratings of the rider... otherwise we should give all the riders high stats... f.e. Talansky was very good in the Dauphine, but nobody calls for 81 Mountain rating, because due to injuries he had to withdraw from the Tour. If you are Belgian, I guess you can say the same for Jurgen van der Broeck, he had a virus infection during the Tour... so, normally he should do better.... Mollema was also sick during the first week, so normally he would do better.... and he would definitely do better in the TT if his bike would have been tested beter...
you see, you can give stats to riders based on you opinion who good he would do if everything would be perfect, but that is most likely not the case most of the time. There for i is a matter of opinion and you should edit it how you see it fit... not try to persuade the DB maker, to adjust the stats to your liking.
Vuelta 14, you think? Cool, you are already counting a race that hasn't seen a single mountain yet and which Contador is riding coming back from an major injury.
Bertie was impressive this year. His results, despite lack of a Grand Tour, still see him 2nd in UCI World Tour ranking. He beat both Quintana, Froome and then some in his races. Just because of the crash in Tour doesn't make him any weaker in the mountains themselves, and guy is the real deal (again) when it comes to climbing. But anyhoo, saying his last great achievement is Giro 2011 is weird and frankly, imo, quite biased with the goal of rating him lower than he deserves.
but this is the actual problem with the stats discussion in a nutshell... you support or would like to see that Contador is doing good. He has a big number of injuries, so in big GT's he's not able to perform a the highest level. We all know the Contador is a very good climber...
but injuries are a part of the sport and therefor affect the ratings of the rider... otherwise we should give all the riders high stats... f.e. Talansky was very good in the Dauphine, but nobody calls for 81 Mountain rating, because due to injuries he had to withdraw from the Tour. If you are Belgian, I guess you can say the same for Jurgen van der Broeck, he had a virus infection during the Tour... so, normally he should do better.... Mollema was also sick during the first week, so normally he would do better.... and he would definitely do better in the TT if his bike would have been tested beter...
you see, you can give stats to riders based on you opinion who good he would do if everything would be perfect, but that is most likely not the case most of the time. There for i is a matter of opinion and you should edit it how you see it fit... not try to persuade the DB maker, to adjust the stats to your liking.
Contador may not have been performing too well in GTs, but don't forget GT performances aren't just affected by MO and TT. REC plays a big role as well. Contador has throughout the season shown excellent climbing, outclimbing riders like Quintana multiple times. Therefore, 81MO is too low. However, if you want him to not do well in GTs, I'd recommend a low REC.
Vuelta 14, you think? Cool, you are already counting a race that hasn't seen a single mountain yet and which Contador is riding coming back from an major injury.
Bertie was impressive this year. His results, despite lack of a Grand Tour, still see him 2nd in UCI World Tour ranking. He beat both Quintana, Froome and then some in his races. Just because of the crash in Tour doesn't make him any weaker in the mountains themselves, and guy is the real deal (again) when it comes to climbing. But anyhoo, saying his last great achievement is Giro 2011 is weird and frankly, imo, quite biased with the goal of rating him lower than he deserves.
but this is the actual problem with the stats discussion in a nutshell... you support or would like to see that Contador is doing good. He has a big number of injuries, so in big GT's he's not able to perform a the highest level. We all know the Contador is a very good climber...
but injuries are a part of the sport and therefor affect the ratings of the rider... otherwise we should give all the riders high stats... f.e. Talansky was very good in the Dauphine, but nobody calls for 81 Mountain rating, because due to injuries he had to withdraw from the Tour. If you are Belgian, I guess you can say the same for Jurgen van der Broeck, he had a virus infection during the Tour... so, normally he should do better.... Mollema was also sick during the first week, so normally he would do better.... and he would definitely do better in the TT if his bike would have been tested beter...
you see, you can give stats to riders based on you opinion who good he would do if everything would be perfect, but that is most likely not the case most of the time. There for i is a matter of opinion and you should edit it how you see it fit... not try to persuade the DB maker, to adjust the stats to your liking.
This is a 5 time grand tour winner you are pulling down here, show a little respect mate. None of those guys you mention have made any effort in their career that supports a 81-82 stat.
Honnestly i don't see what alle the fuss is about. Contador was by far the best GC rider in the spring season, and in Dauphine he only lost because his team wasn't there. On stage 8 in TDF he put Nibali in his place on the last meters and Contador wasn't even ripping it out 100% because he thougt they where racing for the win and therefor played it tactically.
So stop the talk about Contador should be 81, its blasphemy.
@Dusen; you are getting this al the wrong way... I'm stating that this kind of stats discussion are all biased by believes of individuals. You are only fueling my statement...
And I'm not putting Contador down... If you would have read my thread you would have seen adjustment to put the calculated stats to actual database stats;
