I mean there are a lot more agressive riders than the Schlecks/Andy, but i wouldn't call them/him overly defensive. Andy was waiting for his brother too many times, thats true, but in 2011 he attacked on Galibier, Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Amstel Gold Race. I know L-B-L was more a "Schleck-Attack", but anyhow there are riders who are more defensive. Also look at these years TdF top 10. Froome only rides away on the last mountain and does this strange acceleration thing, Quintana is more aggressive, Rodriguez always does his last kilometre thing, Contador is more aggressive, Kreuziger, Mollema, Fuglsang, Valverde, Navarro, Talansky, i don't think so.
Edited by ppanther on 03-10-2013 21:10
StevenGreen wrote:
but it seems though, that trek is believing in the schlecks as leaders for grand tours. without looking at them as possible top 5 or something the team wouldnt have a real leader
I can't resist : Zoidl, although he fractured his pelvis.
But guys you can't argue with the fact, that the last editions of the Tour was just not the same, than it was i Andy vs. Contador times. 2012 was just horrible, and 2013 was a rider whom gained the yelleow and kpt it for two weeks..
Assuming that he was riding clean, I think Andy has the potential to at least podium again. Assuming the broken pelvis isn't hindering him, he has demonstrated that he can reach the physical fitness necessary to do it. I do question his mental fitness though. He should have ridden better this year than he did.
It still seems like his TT is a real Achilles heel. Other GC contenders, particularly the climbers, have the same problem, but that doesn't help him if a more well-rounded GC contender is in top form.
issoisso wrote: They're two of the most boring defensive riders in the world, they've lost countless chances of big wins because they don't have the balls to attack even when it's their only chance.
Now now isso I don't know if I would go that far. To be a defensive rider you have to actually ride your bike occasionally. Not something Andy is known for.
sieve wrote:
Assuming the broken pelvis isn't hindering him, he has demonstrated that he can reach the physical fitness necessary to do it.
I think it actually hindered/hinders him more, than many believe.
Or he just stopped using the juice...
Schlecks were never nice riders to watch for me. And their racing tactics were awful, even when they had tactical mastermind leading them from team car.
the "schleck attacks" are a tactical thing. one of them attacks and wins a few meters and sees who can follow. if they can, the other one goes and so on. if you watch luz ardidien in 2011, thats what they did, only that it was a little too late for fränk to win some serious time.
"Oh no, they all come back ! But my beloved brother looks the least good of them. We might try again on another stage, I won't hurt my brother any more".
Edited by Aquarius on 06-10-2013 10:50
Really guys, i have no idea why do you hate Schlecks so much...
They have done absolutely nothing that's bad (except Frank's doping...). I won't talk about defensive type of ride, since all of that are tactics. I understand that you like Nibali much more than Andy f.e. because he is attacking whenever he gets chance to , but i can't see a single reason to hate Andy & Frank (okay, it's good arguement not to like Frank because of doping).
Btw, i am and will always be huge fan of Andy Schleck, so maybe it's just me being biased.
Edited by admirschleck on 06-10-2013 11:14
Besides, you cannot say that the tdf 12,13 were better than tdf 08-11 . And in my opinion it is because of the schlecks those tours were so interesting
Well, personally, I just dislike riders that only give a damn about 1 or 2 races.
Like Andy Schleck, or also a bit VdB Edited by Jesleyh on 06-10-2013 11:26
StevenGreen wrote:
the "schleck attacks" are a tactical thing. one of them attacks and wins a few meters and sees who can follow. if they can, the other one goes and so on. if you watch luz ardidien in 2011, thats what they did, only that it was a little too late for fränk to win some serious time.
If that were true (which it isn't), it would be the stupidest tactic any cyclist has ever had, by a long margin
An acceleration costs a lot of energy. Attacking and stopping a few meters later to "see who can follow" is so beyond moronic I don't have words for
Pellizotti2 wrote:
admirschleck wrote:
Really guys, i have no idea why do you hate Schlecks so much...
At the 2007 Giro it was Di Luca's team's fault for being stronger in the TTT. The fact that Di Luca beat him up every single climb is apparently irrelevant.
At the 2008 Tour it was Sastre's fault for attacking at Alpe d'Huez. Apparently the fact that that was exactly the team's plan pre-stage is irrelevant, as is the fact that Sastre specifically did not attack on the Bonette climb when Frank asked him not to.
At the 2009 Tour it was the motorbikes' fault for supposedly pacing Contador up the climbs in Andorra, Verbier and the time trial. Apparently that's the only reason that Andy lost any time.
At the 2010 Tour it was Contador's fault for attacking while Andy's chain had dropped. Apparently the fact that Andy then lost considerably more time on the descent is irrelevant. Andy also doesn't see a problem with crying foul at the loss of these seconds despite it being pretty much the exact same way that he won nearly two minutes on everyone else on the cobbles stage by attacking when everyone else was caught behind a crash, and despite the peloton giving him a break and slowing down to let him back on when he was 8 minutes down and out on the Spa stage. The time he lost in the prologue also doesn't exist, because as Andy put it, the time he lost with the dropped chain "was the only time I ever lost to Contador"
At the 2010 Vuelta it was Bjarne Riis's fault for "being unreasonable" and kicking him out of the race just because he was out drinking until 3 am and came back to the hotel loud and intoxicated. Apparently that's perfectly acceptable behaviour for a professional in the middle of one of the biggest races of the season.
At the 2011 Tour it was the route's fault because apparently bike racers aren't supposed to need any bike handling skills and descents apparently aren't supposed to affect races.
For the last 3 years it's been the other contenders' fault for not attacking because apparently the Schlecks have been the only ones who have attacked at the Tour in this period of time, and they didn't make any tactical mistakes at all.
(For those in disbelief, yes, the Schleck brothers really have claimed every single one of these mind-meltingly ridiculous things)
According to Andy, the fact that he's a one dimensional rider who has only one single skill (climbing) and is average to bad at time trialling, flat riding, navigating the cobbles, tactical intelligence, managing a breakaway, sprinting or any other skill a bike rider should have, is irrelevant. According to Andy, it's definitely not his fault that he's a professional stage racer who's never won a single one of the over 50 stage races in his career despite riding quite literally the 4 Tour de France routes in history best suited to his single skill and despite spending the entire season lounging around making no efforts at races to save himself solely for the Tour while his opponents are going all out and tiring themselves to win both major and minor races all season.
It's not Andy's fault that he can't time trial, because he insists he's been working extremely hard at it damn it.....despite the fact that his own coach Bobby Julich was exhasperated on TV saying that he hasn't been able to get Andy to train on the time trial bike at all.
Nope, none of this is Andy's fault. It's everyone else's fault.
It's also clearly not Andy's fault that so many people with steady jobs are now out on their asses. Most of the staff (mechanics, soigneurs, choaches, etc) at Saxo Bank didn't want to leave for Team Leopard, until he and Frank personally promised them that if they left they would not only get great raises, but the team would exist "for a minimum of 4 years", so they shouldn't be afraid of leaving a secure job at Saxo Bank.
After 9 months, Leopard merged with Radioshack and all those staff were very suddenly unemployed at a late stage in the season when most teams already have all job positions filled for the next year.
Nice going Andy.
Now, if anyone reading this thinks that Andy really believed the team would last for 4 years, I have ocean front land in Switzerland for them to buy for a great price. Andy knew very well because the guy financing the team, Flavio Becca, had made it very clear that he would only fund the team for one season and no longer. It needs to be noted that Andy is a notorious liar. In late 2009 he was already plotting to set the team up with Becca, Cancellara and his brother Frank, as proven by the promotional material they made to attract potential sponsors, that later surfaced, however 6 months later when Riis confronted him asking him if there was any truth to the rumour that they were leaving to set up their own team, Andy strongly denied it.
What a great guy.
After all this, add in the fact that Andy is constantly demeaning other riders, criticizing and personally insulting them (my favourite being insulting one of the most beloved riders in the peloton for having "something wrong in the head" apropos of absolutely nothing), constantly criticizing any technical section of a course just because he doesn't have bike handling skills, and disrespecting the majority of races and cycling's history, and is it any wonder that he's widely hated in the fanbase and inside the peloton?
Okay, there are some of good arguements, but in 2009 , when motorbike blocked him , he started attack and he got few meters advantage. He had to stop after few meters, and as isso said, that's probably the dumbest thing in cycling (trying to attack and then just stop, since that costs you alot of energy, this time he had to).
2010 TdF and "chain" case - Of course that's not fairplay by Contador. It was clear that Contador could not follow that attack and i think everyone saw that. That situation simply destroyed Andy, firstly his energy (again, since you lose much power by accelerating and stopping after few meters), time that he lost to make chain working again, so...
Talking about Time Trial abilities, i think everyone can choose what they're going to train. If he doesn't like time-trial, he won't train it. Of course, he will say he is bad in time trial, when someone asks him (journalists, newspapers...) but i can't see point where he blamed his trainer.
Also, i can find only 2 situation , from about 10 of these where's Andy really wrong. So it's maybe you hating him because of his style of riding , more than these imaginary reasons.
Btw, i was always wondering why don't you hate Van den Broeck , or Contador, when they're even worser in terms of tactics, un-fair , not racing anything except TdF bla,bla...
Alsoooo, how can you even say that Andy can't race without Frank? I mean, that's most stupid thing i've ever heard. Sorry, but it really is. Of course , Frank always supported him, as probably every brother on this earth will do , but Andy have shown that he is able to race alone, without team (Contador's Astana vs alone Andy) , but of course , not that much as Cadel can (like he doesn't even have team).
Huh, that was pretty long, and i am sure i made some grammar mistakes, but i think you will be able to read it.
Edited by admirschleck on 06-10-2013 12:19
Andy's been pissed at his management ever since it's tried to make him and Fränk race separately, so yes, definitely something stupid that's been imagined. Not sure who's stupid though...
They might do better next year though, they've hired their favourite DS : Kim Andersen. The man is the world record holder for most positive tests in a career. That's probably for his training and tactical skills though.
The Schleck are great ? How about the "my opponent was obviously having a bad day today but I didn't attack him because we had a plan before the stage, that we wouldn't attack today, so we stick to the plan". That could be a prize winner in the Tactical Stupidity award...
Then he loses the race by 15 seconds or so, blaming it on the chain thing, and eventually reclaiming it thanks to the clenbuterol thing.
: Zoidl, although he fractured his pelvis.
We might try again on another stage, I won't hurt my brother any more".
