Mountains & Results
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Jesleyh |
Posted on 25-12-2012 12:19
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Tour de France Champion
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@staviros Believe me, with a 10 days training camp of 5 stars, you will see a difference. And about the recce camps: It improves the daily form at the stages you explore.
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staviros |
Posted on 25-12-2012 12:26
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I'm going to try and be a bit scientific about this now as there are lots of variations on mountaing strategy:
gonna use stage 12 of the TDF, team sky, froome lead rider, normal difficulty and try the different tactics out each time on the last climb at the same distance bottom of the climb??:
1. ride away on dot @ 84%.
2. ride away on dot @ 84% protected by wiggins.
3. quick attack then on dot @84%.
4. No2 rider on 99% dot, leader in stay with group
5. any other suggestions?? |
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juszta |
Posted on 25-12-2012 12:37
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My variant (probably you were using something similar) :
-Have your best rider protected by your third best during the mountains and your second best rider protected by the fourth best
-Have the rest of your team try to control the pace as much as possible during the climbs
-During the final climb (or when you expect high priority attacks) switch your second guy to protect your best guy and set the 3rd and 4th guys on relay with around 90 effort (could be 99 depending on the situation)
-When they are dead, switch your best guy to self effort (80-85) and ride away while being protected
-Your second best guy will die soon, from then just keep riding on self effort and hope for a good result (with Froome you can win every mountain stage on normal difficulity) |
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staviros |
Posted on 26-12-2012 11:12
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Juszta...noted..... Will try some of these one by one......
Has this been done before by anyone? |
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Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 27-12-2012 06:48
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World Champion
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staviros wrote:
Eple...that was the strategy I have been using.....but was experiencing contador attacking all the way on to the back wheel again.....and then sprinting well to take the stage.....maybe attacked to early on in the climb.....I try and go on the offensive about 7km. The protection rider dies after about 1km....leaving 6km on the dot at 84%.
Seem to have better luck when countering the Ai attacks and then sitting on the wheel of froome and contador....
Training and recce camps.....I use both only for the Tdf.....doesn't do much for the stats of my lead rider....more for the support guys......can't say I see a benefit from the recce camps yet.
I think experiencing Contador attacking again and again and not being able to drop him is the best thing that the game can brought to you. Because if we want the game realistic, that is what is happening in real too. Doing a minute gap on Conta with lesser climber is nonsense imo and that is why i always play extreme, which gives the most realistic results.
Actually once you learn the game perfectly, even extreme is pretty easy to get results on and more believable.
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Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 27-12-2012 06:51
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juszta wrote:
My variant (probably you were using something similar) :
-Have your best rider protected by your third best during the mountains and your second best rider protected by the fourth best
-Have the rest of your team try to control the pace as much as possible during the climbs
-During the final climb (or when you expect high priority attacks) switch your second guy to protect your best guy and set the 3rd and 4th guys on relay with around 90 effort (could be 99 depending on the situation)
-When they are dead, switch your best guy to self effort (80-85) and ride away while being protected
-Your second best guy will die soon, from then just keep riding on self effort and hope for a good result (with Froome you can win every mountain stage on normal difficulity)
Yeah, with this tactic on normal, you should be creating a minute gap on every stage with no problem. Just keep the leader as fresh as possible.
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Ian Butler |
Posted on 27-12-2012 08:17
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
staviros wrote:
Eple...that was the strategy I have been using.....but was experiencing contador attacking all the way on to the back wheel again.....and then sprinting well to take the stage.....maybe attacked to early on in the climb.....I try and go on the offensive about 7km. The protection rider dies after about 1km....leaving 6km on the dot at 84%.
Seem to have better luck when countering the Ai attacks and then sitting on the wheel of froome and contador....
Training and recce camps.....I use both only for the Tdf.....doesn't do much for the stats of my lead rider....more for the support guys......can't say I see a benefit from the recce camps yet.
I think experiencing Contador attacking again and again and not being able to drop him is the best thing that the game can brought to you. Because if we want the game realistic, that is what is happening in real too. Doing a minute gap on Conta with lesser climber is nonsense imo and that is why i always play extreme, which gives the most realistic results.
Actually once you learn the game perfectly, even extreme is pretty easy to get results on and more believable.
I agree, battling Contador is one of the most awesome things that can happen in the game. Beating him is very tough and can only be done with great tactics. When it works out, you're very glad, though |
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staviros |
Posted on 27-12-2012 15:45
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update:
tried frromedog tactic first...just to summarise:
stage 12 TDF, normal difficulty, team sky.
wiggins leader (97% fitness); froome No2 rider. Uran & Henao protectng both of them until final climb:
climb 1: rest of team relaying @ 58% effort
climb 2: rest of team relay @ 60% effort
climb 3: 69% effort
final climb: 84% effort. then froome 99% on dot, wiggins on 99% follow. 17.8Km climb
basically the peleton and my domestiques disintegrated at about 10km to go, put froome on 99% dot and he broke the rest up and put a small gap in...chase group formed behind froome which including wiggo, they caught froome with about 1.5k to go and then there was sprint for the line.
Results:
1. Contador
2. VDB 0"
3. A Schleck 0"
4. Evans 0"
5. wiggins 22"
6. froome 22"
7. roche 44"
8. nibali 1'21"
9. pinot 1'35"
10. f.schleck 1'59" |
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FroomeDog99 |
Posted on 27-12-2012 15:49
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staviros wrote:
update:
tried frromedog tactic first...just to summarise:
stage 12 TDF, normal difficulty, team sky.
wiggins leader (97% fitness); froome No2 rider. Uran & Henao protectng both of them until final climb:
climb 1: rest of team relaying @ 58% effort
climb 2: rest of team relay @ 60% effort
climb 3: 69% effort
final climb: 84% effort. then froome 99% on dot, wiggins on 99% follow. 17.8Km climb
basically the peleton and my domestiques disintegrated at about 10km to go, put froome on 99% dot and he broke the rest up and put a small gap in...chase group formed behind froome which including wiggo, they caught froome with about 1.5k to go and then there was sprint for the line.
Results:
1. Contador
2. VDB 0"
3. A Schleck 0"
4. Evans 0"
5. wiggins 22"
6. froome 22"
7. roche 44"
8. nibali 1'21"
9. pinot 1'35"
10. f.schleck 1'59"
To be honest the tactic I recommended was only if the helper was weaker in Mo than the leader and the leader had 84/85 Mo as you said. It won't work in this test |
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staviros |
Posted on 27-12-2012 18:33
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froome's fitness was 87%...wiggins 97%...but can run it again. |
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staviros |
Posted on 28-12-2012 00:18
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okay used the wiggins on 88% on the dot with froome protecting method:
1.a schleck 4h 44m 39'
2. wiggins 55"
3. VDB
4. evans 55"
5. nibali 1'42"
6. kloden 2'27"
7. gesink 2'37"
8. rolland 2'37"
9. moreno 2'37"
10. f schleck 2'37"
no contador selected for the race!!
then i used wiggins (99% fitness)to attack out of the leading group and then go on dot:
1. a schleck 4h44m 51"
2. contador 12"
3. nibali 26"
4. froome 26"
5. evans 38"
6. VDB 38"
7. wiggins 38"
8. nieve 1'05"
9. hesjedal 1'22"
10. pinot 1'22" |
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Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 09:45
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Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 28-12-2012 06:06
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Sorry to say that man, but if you play on normal, you have to be doing something wrong during the race, because Wiggo should be able to stay with the very best on this difficulty and 99% fitness.
You play with Daily database?
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Jesleyh |
Posted on 28-12-2012 08:31
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Yeah... I think it's also about timing. When you used my tactic, have you got Wiggins protected? If necassary, you can also let Froome attack with him, and then protect Wiggins, and let him go on dot(a higher dot than when he goes solo, since he saves energy)
I don't really understand it, at my game, my tactic almost works every time, especially with a favourite like Wiggins. But how did Froome finish before Wiggins? Did you exhaust Wiggins too much or something?
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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staviros |
Posted on 28-12-2012 09:37
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Sorry to say that man, but if you play on normal, you have to be doing something wrong during the race, because Wiggo should be able to stay with the very best on this difficulty and 99% fitness.
You play with Daily database?
Yes PCM daily db....latest db and patch.
As I have said been playing this for years and only found mountain stages difficult this version.
Hence the post and tests. |
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staviros |
Posted on 28-12-2012 09:39
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Jesleyh wrote:
Yeah... I think it's also about timing. When you used my tactic, have you got Wiggins protected? If necassary, you can also let Froome attack with him, and then protect Wiggins, and let him go on dot(a higher dot than when he goes solo, since he saves energy)
I don't really understand it, at my game, my tactic almost works every time, especially with a favourite like Wiggins. But how did Froome finish before Wiggins? Did you exhaust Wiggins too much or something?
Yeah wiggo blew up....88 on the dot
Froome was 99 on the maintain position....and stayed in the chasing group of fou or five riders and basically breezed past a broken wiggo.
Froome was protecting wiggins before the attack. |
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Jesleyh |
Posted on 28-12-2012 09:45
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Well, the idea was not to let Wiggo blew up, well, let him blow up at the finish line , so a lower dot, except for the last 1 or 2km. Can you try my tactic again? If you want you can also try with Froome+ Wiggins attacking, and then Froome protecting Wiggins?
Edited by Jesleyh on 28-12-2012 09:45
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
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juszta |
Posted on 28-12-2012 09:46
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I'm about to do the same test myself, will post the results soon. |
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Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 28-12-2012 09:55
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Wha is functional for me, even on extreme, is protecting the leader well during the whole stage (him maitaining postition on 50-85 depends on speed of pack).
And when he is alone without helpers, just dotting him on 75-89 (more would kill him in the second), but most important is the heart rate and speed of the others, so you have to change slider between 75 and 89 frequently to fit the situation and heart rate.
You can also counter the attacks of others, or go on a short attack yourself. I never had a big problem with this tactic, unless there is minus daily form of course. Also dont blew up all red and yellow bar before sprint on high gradients, as you can loose or gain almost a minute there.
And as i said, it is pretty realistic that Wiggo will loose some time to Andy or Conta on the mountain stage and extreme give these realistic results, while following these tactics on normal, beating them or staying with them should be rather easy.
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juszta |
Posted on 28-12-2012 10:23
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Normal difficulity
Sky climbing squad
Tour stage 12
Wiggins leader at 95 Fitness, Froome at 91 Fitness
Nordhaug protects Wiggins from the start
Siutsou protects Froome from the start
Knees is in charge of controlling the pace for the first mountain
Make sure to push the tempo in the downhill section, so the breakaway doesn't get too much space to work with (I only gave them 3 mins in the first mountain).
Second mountain, higher speed for the peloton by same-old Knees with the help of Nordhaug.
Nibali and Gesink lose contact on the penultimate climb, but they manage to get back.
Last climb: The riders, who protected Froome and Wiggo go to the front to catch the BotD and tire out the favourites. (give them the energy bars)
12 km to go: The former riders are now dead. Uran and Henao to defend Froome and Wiggo. Porte and Rogers to the front.
10km to go: Favourites attack: Uran and Henao to the front, Froome def Wiggo.
8 km to go: Conta attacks. Wiggo on dot deffed by Froome
3 km to go: Andy is still in the lead, gotta push hard now with Wiggins. Froome is almost dead, but Wiggins is still doing alright.
Sprint: We catch Andy, but he outsprints us. Andy gets 1st, Conta second, Wiggo 3rd, Froome 7th. No time-gaps. It's pretty good considering Andy and Conta both have +2 Mountain on Wiggins
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Jesleyh |
Posted on 28-12-2012 10:39
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HA, my(and some other's) tactic kinda works
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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