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2012 DB: Stat Discussions
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| Squire |
Posted on 31-01-2012 22:55
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issoisso wrote:
In before someone complains about Battaglin
Squire wrote:
Carlos Betancur doesn't write his name as Betancourt anymore. He should also have his potential upped, and his HIL stat drastically increased, as he won the Giro dell'Emilia (although it was from a breakaway, he was still one of the strongest in the race on the final climb). Also he was 9th in Lombardia. One of the big hilly classics talents out there, IMO.
It should be noted that he's more of a climber and that Lombardia is more of a mountain classic since the route change.
I considered mentioning the Finestre stage, but I thought the Lombardia result would be convincing enough. I still think his HIL stat should at least follow his MO stat. I can imagine Betancur as a bit of an Anton/Uran type, who can also do well in races like LBL. But I'm not too familiar with him, so you might know better.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 09:31
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| ruben |
Posted on 31-01-2012 22:57
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No, you are right, Betancur is very explosive as well. Remember the U23 worlds a few years back. Same thing, hilly course, Betancur did great.
He's as explosive as he is good on long climbs. Also winner of the Baby Giro if I remember correctly. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 31-01-2012 22:58
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ruben wrote:
Also winner of the Baby Giro if I remember correctly.
Yes, and by quite a lot, too.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Bushwackers |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:10
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I would probably raise Danny Pate to at least 73 in MO and 75 in HI, after seeing what he was able to do in Australia. Also, I think he deserves a boost in his flat stat, seeing how he was able to lead the peloton throughout the Tour last year, and is currently one of the best power house domestiques in the sport. Maybe 77 FL?
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| ruben |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:12
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That's just crazy... Pate doesn't even deserve close to those stats. |
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| brewers90 |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:12
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DO NOT FEED THE PATE TROLL
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:15
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ruben wrote:
That's just crazy... Pate doesn't even deserve close to those stats.
BTW Ruben, Bushwackers is obsessed with Pate, can't argue with him 
And Squire, thanks for your two cents, noted Betancur is defintely rider that needs his stats improved a lot.
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| Bushwackers |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:19
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Alright I don't want to derail this thread so I will only post one more time.
In the tour last year, you all saw him lead the peloton's chase on just about every flat stage. Not just anyone can do that in the biggest race in the world, and certainly not someone with as low of stats as he has in the game. With his current stats this will never happen, and that is unrealistic. He was also instrumental in Cavendish's leadout on countless occasions.
As for his climbing stats, I believe that when he attacked Gerrans, Valverde, and Rogers in the queen stage of the Tour of Australia, we were witnessing the beginning of a resurgence in his climbing ability. Keep in mind, he has podiumed in a Tour de France mountain top finish. You don't do that with the stats he currently has.
Just a suggestion to make it better, not trying to make anyone angry or troll.
Edited by Bushwackers on 31-01-2012 23:20
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:27
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Navardasukus was much better at leading the peloton imo, and I think he only had 73 Flat, but it may have been raised.
And in PCM, pretty much anyone can take a turn at the front of the peloton.
As for his climbing stats, he attacked way before the climb, and Movistar and GreenEDGE had things under control.
He was getting in a late breakaway. You wouldn't raise Cav's mountain stats just because he attacked late in a hilly stage, but before the hill. Moreover, he completely cracked, once they reached the climb.
Edited by valverde321 on 31-01-2012 23:31
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| fickman |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:40
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I think these riders deserve better mountain/hill stats maybe +1 or +2
Sergio Henao:
2º 14/08/2011 General Tour of Utah
3º overall UCI America Tour
Carlos Alberto Betancourt:
1º 08/10/2011 General Giro dell´Emilia
4º 28/05/2011 Stage 20 Giro d´Italia
5º 25/08/2011 General GP Industria e Commercio Artigianato Carnaghese
9º 15/10/2011 General Giro di Lombardia
Johan Esteban Chaves
1º 11/09/2011 General Tour de l´Avenir
Jose Serpa
6º 29/01/2012 General Tour de San Luis
1º 03/03/2011 General Giro del Friuli
2º 23/01/2011 General Tour de San Luis
2º 30/01/2011 General Giro della Provincia di Reggio Calabria-Challenge Calabria
2º 26/02/2011 General Giro di Sardegna
3º 11/05/2011 Stage 5 Giro d´Italia
4º 18/05/2011 Stage 11 Giro d´Italia
4º 03/09/2011 General Settimana Ciclistica Lombarda
5º 06/08/2011 General GP Città ´ di Camaiore
Rigoberto Uran
3º 09/09/2011 General Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec
3º 08/10/2011 General Giro dell´Emilia
4º 21/03/2011 Stage 1 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya
4º 05/07/2011 Stage 4 Tour de France
5º 27/03/2011 General Volta Ciclista a Catalunya
5º 24/04/2011 General Liège-Bastogne-Liége
Fabio Andrés Duarte
1º 21/04/2011 Stage 3 Giro del Trentino
2º 27/02/2011 General GP di Lugano
2º 11/05/2011 Stage 5 Giro d´Italia
5º 06/03/2011 General Vuelta Ciclista a Murcia
Edited by fickman on 01-02-2012 09:05
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| Squire |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:44
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A few more observations.
I find the one-hit wonders a bit overrated. Thomas Voeckler 78MO is a jumping to conclusions a bit. Chris Froome 79MO is crazy, especially when Cobo also has 79MO. I can agree with Cobo, but the way the stats are now, Froome will beat Cobo in 8/10 Vueltas. I would suggest 77MO for Froome, and that's stretching it. The climbers he beat in that Vuelta were far from being the cream of the crop, or, as was the case with Anton, Nibali, VDB2 & Scarponi, were underachieving badly.
Dan Martin 76MO doesn't make sense, considering some of the riders who are higher. At least 77, maybe 78 for him. Peter Velits 77MO is a bit generous, I think. He's not done much apart from that fluke Vuelta.
As for Andreas Klöden, do you win the Vuelta a Pais Vasco with 76 hill? I also think you've been a bit pessimistic regarding his climbing overall. He hasn't had a chance to show it in Grand Tours lately.
I don't think Alejandro Valverde has lost that much during his ban. He's been training really well, and 78 hill? Come on! I also find 73 REC a bit bemusing. He's always been going really well for the whole Vuelta, and in the Tour, it's not his recovery that has let him down, rather his inconsistency. I know that REC can work as a substitute for a lack of consistency-stat, but with 73, he'll never win a Vuelta again. Lastly, I don't think a few more sprint points will make him participate in bunch sprints. Speaking of which, he has actually beaten the likes of Freire in semi-bunch sprints.
I agree with those mentioning Sergio Henao. Granted, he has a high potential, but the Sky management are sending him to the Giro already this year, I think, suggesting that he might be more developed than we think. Also, I seem to remember that he won a prologue in some American race? A bit better than 66PRL then, I think.
On the Pate madness: George Hincapie has won a Tour de France mountain top finish...
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:50
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Sergio Henao.bit better than 66PRL then, I think.
Just to say, that was an uphill prologue - thus not representative of the prologue stat
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| Squire |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:53
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Sergio Henao.bit better than 66PRL then, I think.
Just to say, that was an uphill prologue - thus not representative of the prologue stat
Oh, didn't know, just saw a headline saying that he blitzed some kind of prologue.
Who on earth makes an uphill prologue?
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| ruben |
Posted on 31-01-2012 23:57
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Still Henao is not terrible at prologues. Not even completely flat ones.
Long TT's however... well, they need to work on it with Sky. He has the power but not the position |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 01-02-2012 05:32
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valverde321 wrote:
Navardasukus was much better at leading the peloton imo, and I think he only had 73 Flat, but it may have been raised.
And in PCM, pretty much anyone can take a turn at the front of the peloton.
etc., etc.
One thing you learn as a journalist:
Let the politician (in this case Wacky Bush) reel off their usual gibberish to begin with, ignore it and proceed with the interview when they are done.
So in this case, just ignore it |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 01-02-2012 05:46
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CrueTrue wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
Navardasukus was much better at leading the peloton imo, and I think he only had 73 Flat, but it may have been raised.
And in PCM, pretty much anyone can take a turn at the front of the peloton.
etc., etc.
One thing you learn as a journalist:
Let the politician (in this case Wacky Bush) reel off their usual gibberish to begin with, ignore it and proceed with the interview when they are done.
So in this case, just ignore it
Sometimes its hard to resist. 
Hint taken though
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 01-02-2012 06:43
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Squire wrote:
Peter Velits 77MO is a bit generous, I think. He's not done much apart from that fluke Vuelta.
Joking, or never seen him racing apart from that Vuelta?
For example he was 19th overall in 2011 TdF with this stage results worth mentioning:
5th on Super-Besse in front of Contador and Schlecks
5th on Saint-Flour beating Evans,Schlecks
Then he crashed in the stage to Luz Ardiden,that dragged him out of top 10
4th!!! on Alpe d'Huez only behind Rolland,Sanchez and Conta,beating all the favourites
9th in the final TT.
So only the fall prevented him from top 10 and he was climbing with the best almost in all stages. No more evidence needed i think, this with Vuelta podium and other good results make him one of the best stage-racers worldwide
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 01-02-2012 06:54
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Squire wrote:
Peter Velits 77MO is a bit generous, I think. He's not done much apart from that fluke Vuelta.
Joking, or never seen him racing apart from that Vuelta?
For example he was 19th overall in 2011 TdF with this stage results worth mentioning:
5th on Super-Besse in front of Contador and Schlecks
5th on Saint-Flour beating Evans,Schlecks
Then he crashed in the stage to Luz Ardiden,that dragged him out of top 10
4th!!! on Alpe d'Huez only behind Rolland,Sanchez and Conta,beating all the favourites
9th in the final TT.
So only the fall prevented him from top 10 and he was climbing with the best almost in all stages. No more evidence needed i think, this with Vuelta podium and other good results make him one of the best stage-racers worldwide
Actually, Super-Besse and Saint-Flour were hilly finishes. Gilbert was the fastest in the peloton on both occasions.
But I can't argue with that he did pretty well on the Alpe.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 01-02-2012 07:09
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Squire wrote:
Peter Velits 77MO is a bit generous, I think. He's not done much apart from that fluke Vuelta.
Joking, or never seen him racing apart from that Vuelta?
For example he was 19th overall in 2011 TdF with this stage results worth mentioning:
5th on Super-Besse in front of Contador and Schlecks
5th on Saint-Flour beating Evans,Schlecks
Then he crashed in the stage to Luz Ardiden,that dragged him out of top 10
4th!!! on Alpe d'Huez only behind Rolland,Sanchez and Conta,beating all the favourites
9th in the final TT.
So only the fall prevented him from top 10 and he was climbing with the best almost in all stages. No more evidence needed i think, this with Vuelta podium and other good results make him one of the best stage-racers worldwide
Actually, Super-Besse and Saint-Flour were hilly finishes. Gilbert was the fastest in the peloton on both occasions.
But I can't argue with that he did pretty well on the Alpe.
True, but i think 77 in mountain is fine, compared to the other riders. For example Froome is more one-hit wonder then Peter and stats are way better (well we know Alakagom loves Sky ). Velits is better on shorter climbs and has one of the best finishing kicks of the climbers. He is not so good on the long climbs though.
Edit: Still stating that he does not show anything else apart from that Vuelta is way off
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 01-02-2012 07:11
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 01-02-2012 07:35
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@Squire, I don't know where you got Froome stat from. He got 77 at MO and 77 at Hill Agreed about Martin, and Velits has 76 in MO btw ( certainly in my DB )
About Kloden, Hill stat is very debetable, Kloden doesn't partcipate in Ardennes often, so it's hard to judge him, but 76 is little harsh. I wouldn't go up far as 78 ( Uran Gerrans types of riders have 78 ), but 77. About GT potential, for me you said it yourself. He didn't show any potentiall in GT's so I can't give him higher MO stat than that ) though in my DB I think he has 78-79 in MO so I thought that was fair ( although it looks there are diffrent stats in my DB comapared to your one so pissibly you have diffrentent stats than I do for Klodi too, that would be wierd though ), as well as getting older and being at RSNT won't help.
Edited by Alakagom on 01-02-2012 08:19
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