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acceleration value dont work as an acceleration
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 00:47
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| tellico |
Posted on 22-07-2011 11:48
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I did this test and ACC=85 guy accelerate faster than ACC=60 guy after pressing "attack" button (acc85 guy overtook the slower ca. length of a bicycle when both still accelerate). Additionaly he accelerate longer (a little bit longer red bar). But minus is that his heart rate was higher at the end so he spend more energy. Conclusion: attack as late as you can and attack to win. Early attacks = shorter bars throughout the stage.
EDIT: I did it again with ACC=80 and ACC=60 and results was the same like sobrano - not faster, only longer acc.
Edited by tellico on 22-07-2011 12:41
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| wroblitz |
Posted on 22-07-2011 16:58
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That's very interesting. Have you done any other tests Sobrano? I'm particularly interested in protecting, how that affects the riders? I would love to see under the similar rules (same skills of all cyclists, random conditions and form disabled) how much stamina after let say 200 km will have:
1) protecting rider
2) non-protecting, non-protected rider
3) protected rider
If you'll have too much spare time I would be very thankful for the results.
Regards.
Edited by wroblitz on 22-07-2011 17:00
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| sobrano |
Posted on 22-07-2011 17:48
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tellico wrote:
I did this test and ACC=85 guy accelerate faster than ACC=60 guy after pressing "attack" button (acc85 guy overtook the slower ca. length of a bicycle when both still accelerate). Additionaly he accelerate longer (a little bit longer red bar). But minus is that his heart rate was higher at the end so he spend more energy. Conclusion: attack as late as you can and attack to win. Early attacks = shorter bars throughout the stage.
EDIT: I did it again with ACC=80 and ACC=60 and results was the same like sobrano - not faster, only longer acc.
it is normal,try to test many cyclists (about 15 couple) because often someone gain some meter only for wind effects...
try to post a video too
p.s. great ty to help with your tests too (2 testers are better than only 1  ) |
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| tellico |
Posted on 22-07-2011 17:51
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Wroblitz: I did this test on the occasion of testing endurance and stamina. But i'm not focusing on it, just found that protection really works: heart rate protected player was abot 10 lower than others. I plan to test whether it works well in the peloton, or only during the self-effort. Very interesting is how endurance works. Sobrano wrote about this in another thread and i agree with him. Endurance does not give a longer green bar or green bar not disappears more slowly. Just magically, suddenly, in a certain place high endurance cyclist starts to go faster than low endurance cyclist with the same effort. No matter how much green bar they have. Its works not only if they exhausted, even if they fresh suddenly one starts go faster. In other words: low endurance cyclist needs higher effort than high end. to ride on the same speed BUT only after many km. Is therefore endurance relevant ONLY for long steps. I will test later how it depends on distance. Is it this magic spot after some km from start or some km before finish or just always after exactly same distance (eg. 200km)
Edited by tellico on 22-07-2011 17:59
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| tellico |
Posted on 22-07-2011 17:59
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sobrano wrote:
it is normal,try to test many cyclists (about 15 couple) because often someone gain some meter only for wind effects...
try to post a video too
p.s. great ty to help with your tests too (2 testers are better than only 1 )
I did one test for energy gel. Well its work very fine, 3 cyclists: acc80, acc60 and acc60 with active gel starts attack. This acc60 with gel was like, i dont know, acc75...? After attack acc80 leads one bicycle long acc60 with gel and about 3 bicycle long acc60 without gel. Without green effect. Green effect appear approx. in 50% attacks with active gel. It needs more tests. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 22-07-2011 18:01
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wroblitz wrote:
That's very interesting. Have you done any other tests Sobrano? I'm particularly interested in protecting, how that affects the riders? I would love to see under the similar rules (same skills of all cyclists, random conditions and form disabled) how much stamina after let say 200 km will have:
1) protecting rider
2) non-protecting, non-protected rider
3) protected rider
If you'll have too much spare time I would be very thankful for the results.
Regards.
i did tons of other tests, i tested any skills and i always post my results in italian official PCM forum, i tested anything about 3 colored bars
about your question:
your question cant get an answer because there is not a standard about that, it depends by many factors.
btw the level of red, yellow and green bar depends only from heart rhythm (ppm)
consumption of:
green bar start at 145ppm
yellow bar 167
red bar about 185
more exceeds the threshold, the more fuel rods quickly
the red bar threshold drop with continuty to 182ppm if your yellow bar is reduced to 1/3
wind protection make you drop ppm so you save energy.
no matter to know exactly how much you loose after 200km... |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 22-07-2011 18:10
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I just realised that the two stats acceleration and endurance are quite confusing.
High ACC = red bar lasts longer
High END = rider is faster
Shoudn't it be the other way round???????????
It would make more sense if END would make the green last longer and ACC would make them faster. I do not care much about ACC because it does not matter much but END could be very handy for long solo rides if it would reduce the consumption of the green bar all through the stage. But maybe that is what Resistance is for?
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| tellico |
Posted on 22-07-2011 18:29
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sobrano wrote:
btw the level of red, yellow and green bar depends only from heart rhythm (ppm)
consumption of:
green bar start at 145ppm
yellow bar 167
red bar about 185
more exceeds the threshold, the more fuel rods quickly
the red bar threshold drop with continuty to 182ppm if your yellow bar is reduced to 1/3
wind protection make you drop ppm so you save energy.
no matter to know exactly how much you loose after 200km...
Its very interesting. Did you notice how fast red bar drops depending on green bar? We all know that in the early phase of race when green bar is full attack is much longer that in the last phase when GB is half and attack takes only few sec. If i'll be protected leader not only from YB drop but from GB drop too, his attack will be longer on the end of stage? |
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| wroblitz |
Posted on 22-07-2011 22:44
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I personaly think that it is possible to check that stamina thing (even if you'll get slighty different results every time). I just would like to see if that actually change much. How much longer will green bar be on protected rider than on rider who is protecting or who isn't protected / protecting. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 23-07-2011 07:18
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tellico wrote:
Its very interesting. Did you notice how fast red bar drops depending on green bar?
it seem not...red bar drops is not linked with green bar
green bar drops is linked only with heart's ppm.
of course if you have less green bar, your cyclist go slowerl, so to keep high speed,prolly you should reach the red bar threshold
btw there is not a direct connection between greenbar-redbar |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 23-07-2011 07:33
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Lachi wrote:
It would make more sense if END would make the green last longer and ACC would make them faster.
from pcm2006 to pcm2009 an high END make the green last longer, this year it changed High END = rider is faster.
but the final effect is pretty similar i try to explain:
in any edition low green bar = slow speed,
so if END affect greenbar consumption you could save green bar and gain more speed for the end of the stage
this year the effect is about the same in fact END dont give you more green bar but give you more speed anyway...
there are many ways but this is the way choiced by cyanide to simulate the realty (i like both way)
about acceleration i dont agree this strange effect, ACC is similar to a redbar's endurance, but i think to know why cyanide got this choice:
i think that if acc work like a real acceleration, a cyclist with high acceleration gain some meter and cover from the wind the raider with low acceleration, with this behaviour high acc would be a disadvantage (i only suppose that i dont got it from official source) |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 23-07-2011 07:41
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wroblitz wrote:
I personaly think that it is possible to check that stamina thing (even if you'll get slighty different results every time). I just would like to see if that actually change much. How much longer will green bar be on protected rider than on rider who is protecting or who isn't protected / protecting.
your question is wrong.
your question should be: how many ppm can i save if i am protected?
if cyclist A have 144ppm , the protected cyclist B have something like 140 ppm so if nobody reach the greenbar threshold the stamina will be long the same for both cyclists.
if cyclist A have 200ppm and B(protected) 195ppm prolly cyclist B can save green bar just for 10 second longer...
if A reach 168ppm and B 164ppm only A get a yellowbar dropping...(cause only A go over yellowbar's threshold)
as you can see your question strongly depends about the situation
you can easy get an answer only by monitoring of heart ppm
Edited by sobrano on 23-07-2011 07:43
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| tellico |
Posted on 23-07-2011 10:56
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sobrano wrote:
this year the effect is about the same in fact END dont give you more green bar but give you more speed anyway...
Yes, but only from some distance. In my test cyclist end85 and cyclist end60 rode along arm to arm ca. 180km (stage: some classic, dont remember, ca 235km). They have the same effort all the time, all bars was identical, and suddenly end85 starts go faster. So, END "begins to act" in certain circumstances. It happens (opt.1) after a certain kilometer after start or before finish (in this case END is important in every race) or (opt.2) just after certain kilometer like eg 200 (in this case is important ONLY in long stage classic)??? If option two: well, for me its really strange and there is no point paying attention to END (unless classics are very most important to you). |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 23-07-2011 11:32
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tellico wrote:
sobrano wrote:
this year the effect is about the same in fact END dont give you more green bar but give you more speed anyway...
Yes, but only from some distance. In my test cyclist end85 and cyclist end60 rode along arm to arm ca. 180km (stage: some classic, dont remember, ca 235km). They have the same effort all the time, all bars was identical, and suddenly end85 starts go faster. So, END "begins to act" in certain circumstances. It happens (opt.1) after a certain kilometer after start or before finish (in this case END is important in every race) or (opt.2) just after certain kilometer like eg 200 (in this case is important ONLY in long stage classic)??? If option two: well, for me its really strange and there is no point paying attention to END (unless classics are very most important to you).
opt2 is how pcm2011 work. END count only for long stages.
this behaviour is the same from pcm2006
if you are running a stage of 180km you can dont consider END value, you can forget it
Edited by sobrano on 23-07-2011 11:33
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| tellico |
Posted on 23-07-2011 11:58
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sobrano wrote:
opt2 is how pcm2011 work. END count only for long stages.
this behaviour is the same from pcm2006
if you are running a stage of 180km you can dont consider END value, you can forget it
Thanks. So we have absurd situation that in most cases endurance is irrelevant attribute for the cyclist. Or in best situation very minor attribute. I dont get it... |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 23-07-2011 16:34
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tellico wrote:
sobrano wrote:
opt2 is how pcm2011 work. END count only for long stages.
this behaviour is the same from pcm2006
if you are running a stage of 180km you can dont consider END value, you can forget it
Thanks. So we have absurd situation that in most cases endurance is irrelevant attribute for the cyclist. Or in best situation very minor attribute. I dont get it...
unfortunately you are right, btw this year END influence is more heavy than last years |
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| wroblitz |
Posted on 25-07-2011 17:10
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My question wasn't wrong you just misunderstood me. I wasn't curious about the pulse but stamina (however I know it is related) and what I wanted to see was a printscreen of 3 riders' stamina took on 200 km: protected, protecting one and non-protected, non-protecting to see how much difference (in stamina) protecting make. And in opposite to you I still believe it is possible to do. |
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| tellico |
Posted on 25-07-2011 19:57
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wroblitz wrote:
My question wasn't wrong you just misunderstood me. I wasn't curious about the pulse but stamina (however I know it is related) and what I wanted to see was a printscreen of 3 riders' stamina took on 200 km: protected, protecting one and non-protected, non-protecting to see how much difference (in stamina) protecting make. And in opposite to you I still believe it is possible to do.
OMG. All depends on effort beacause pulse depends on effort and bars depends on pulse. If you get cycA with protection and cycB without protection and you set effort that cycA pulss will be 170 and cycB pulse will be 178 both lost the same yellow bar. In other hands if cycA pulse will be 165 and cycB with the same effort pulse will be 172 cycB will lose yellow bar when cycA not even inch. All you need to now is how much pulse is less if cyclist is protected. From my very first observation protected cyclist has a smaller puls ca 7-9. In the peloton difference is lower and almost no significance. However sometimes every one point of pulse counts.
Edited by tellico on 25-07-2011 20:01
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| wroblitz |
Posted on 26-07-2011 00:10
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tellico wrote:
OMG. All depends on effort beacause pulse depends on effort and bars depends on pulse. If you get cycA with protection and cycB without protection and you set effort that cycA pulss will be 170 and cycB pulse will be 178 both lost the same yellow bar. In other hands if cycA pulse will be 165 and cycB with the same effort pulse will be 172 cycB will lose yellow bar when cycA not even inch. All you need to now is how much pulse is less if cyclist is protected. From my very first observation protected cyclist has a smaller puls ca 7-9. In the peloton difference is lower and almost no significance. However sometimes every one point of pulse counts.
Keep that OMG to yourself buddy. Especially when you're the one who doesn't understand the question. I know that pulse is related to bars (I mentioned that like 3 times already), I also know pulse limits for different bars consumption and obviously during the race you have moments where protected and protecting riders bars drops the same speed and different speed. What I wanted to know / see on screenshots is how much green bar is actually saved for example in 200 km distance if you use 2 same skilled cyclists and one is protecting the other one. So if all you can say in response to that question is "OMG. All depends on effort" better say nothing at all. |
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| tellico |
Posted on 26-07-2011 07:40
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You say that you understand the dependencies but apparently you dont if you continue to ask the same. But if you want to answer your question: differences between green bars both cyclists will be (in mm): 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5...all. Depends on effort. You want to simulate for you every one effort on every one stage in PCM?
Edited by tellico on 26-07-2011 07:42
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