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Chaos
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| punka |
Posted on 23-08-2007 04:29
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Under 23
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@Dave92:
Nicely put.
I would also add that the addition of a strong PT rider can pay dividends for a small CT team. In my example, while there may only be a handful of cobbled races for the CT teams, Leif Hoste will be in the fight for each and every one of them, and if he can deliver even a few wins, I would consider an enormous investment worth it... |
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| dave92 |
Posted on 23-08-2007 04:42
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Classics Specialist
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yea, why most of us are looking for that one leader that you already have gotten
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| zutcorp |
Posted on 23-08-2007 05:28
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Domestique
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Silent bid would also work, i think, but the problem is that every dela happens at once, so you could theoreticaally win 20 riders and be out 10 illion, or 1 rider and have 2 mill burning in your pocket when the transfer window is over.
this is going be very hard to work and balance!
Manager of Protour champions 2008, Carlsberg Cycling!! (wow is it that long ago I was in the management game?)
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| zutcorp |
Posted on 23-08-2007 06:41
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Domestique
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Ive been thinking and I think we need to split up the transfer window into more phases. Do the free transfers first, then the ordinary transfers, and so forth.
Or perhaps divide the riders up into groups: A riders first, then domistiqeus etc.
At the moment its impossiblt to build a squad since its too chaotic, and you really have no idea which riders you can get, and auctions are running wild.
Manager of Protour champions 2008, Carlsberg Cycling!! (wow is it that long ago I was in the management game?)
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 06-12-2025 21:14
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| dave92 |
Posted on 23-08-2007 07:18
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Classics Specialist
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zutcorp wrote:
Ive been thinking and I think we need to split up the transfer window into more phases. Do the free transfers first, then the ordinary transfers, and so forth.
Or perhaps divide the riders up into groups: A riders first, then domistiqeus etc.
At the moment its impossiblt to build a squad since its too chaotic, and you really have no idea which riders you can get, and auctions are running wild.
I disagree. This causes more problems, not knowing who would be available to be bought/sold after free riders. I think things were pretty fast-paced today, but it probably will slow down after a few days. Also, don't bid on more than 20 riders, or bid more than your budget and you'll be fine. IMO this break will just create a similar effect to the begining of today. This game is my crack, I need it back soon. If you think auctions are running too wild then don't bid on the guy. There is a finite amount of money in the market. If you believe someone is being overpaid, then somebody else would have to be underpaid to compensate. If you follow football, soccer(football), and baseball you see rediculous prices paid for players, so in a way this is realistic.
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 23-08-2007 07:51
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I agree that we shouldn't be trying to sign 90 riders per team. I realize that 'you can't always get what you want' -Rolling Stones, so we all just have to make due without the giant clusterfuck wich was the tranffer window this morning
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| Crommy |
Posted on 23-08-2007 08:54
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Grand Tour Champion
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Ok, some interesting points have been raised there. The problem is that this whole transfer period was always going to be a complete unknown - I gave high sums of money to try and make it as active as possible.
So, the break will stay with the same duration.
Use this break wisely - figure out how much, on average, you should be spending for each rider, and get an idea of what riders you're looking to buy, and how much you'd pay for them
The finish of bids at a certain time is a good idea, but totally impractical - everyone (see ebay) would cram in their bids at the last second, and it would all be about who's online at the right time
The silent auction is an even better plan, but would be very hard to organise (over 300 riders so far to receive bids from 3 or more people = Ahhhhhh!!!), plus you should no how far you want to go, and you should keep to it. This break, with the trick of finding out how much on average you should be spending for each rider will help you figure this out.
The multi phase system was something I strongly considered, and next season, I may split the transfer period. It's too late now, and both dave and levi (any quote from the Rolling Stones is going to make me take notice  ) raise interesting points.
Thanks for your input, it helps makes this crazy thing much better
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 23-08-2007 12:09
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Team Manager
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I think the huge sums of money is probably the downfall, even ProTour teams have much. And particularly CT teams - I can give Wiggins 650k and still have over a million left to spend.
Another aspect is greed. You dont really want the rider but you think oh well ill go for him anyway, raising the price.
Also, selfishness. If your maximum price for a rider is 150,000, stick to it. Don't keep bidding with someone higher than that will the sole intent of them paying more.
Im also kinda regretting all the impatience - we should have held on until Justin came back. (Smoothie is also away for a big part of next week). I would not like to be in his shoes to find 20+ transfer pages and most of the riders already in deals (Sure, he has a 'chance' to make a bid, but in theory it wont work. Some people will be very protective of their deals).
Anyway, Im glad theres a break but I can only see things escalating madly once again on Monday.
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| stemple |
Posted on 23-08-2007 15:28
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Protected Rider
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someone mentioned with regards to my silent several things.
First someone said that they could win all their bids and be well over budget. That would have to be something you must figure into your bids. You must assume you that all your bids would be accepted and thus that would be your factored into your budget.
Crommy said about the sheer numbers of bids that have already been made and that going threw it all would be a a lot. I don't know if all would end up going to the silent auction. Because any bid that has had the 48 waiting period eclipse would automatically get the rider as normal. I also would say that you have to be actively persuing a rider before the deadline. Like at the deadline you can't be just like i would like to enter one of the silent bids. But i will say that any rider that hasn't been bid on for a decent period of time at the deadline would have the 48 hour period waved, and that individual would get the rider.
I know some people live all over the world and may not be around at the deadline to register and interest in the silent auction. So i would therefore have them say to someone like the commish that they are interested in getting the rider and if it goes to silent auction i want to put in a bid.
Then i would give everyone one day to think about their budgets and enter their bids accordingly. Then go through them all and award the winners their riders. However i would like to whoever is checking them give their bids to someone else, that way there would be no sense of impropriety.
This is if you even decide to go down that route. And i wouldn't mind helping out if you do decide to go this way.
Manager of RABOBANK - Dutch Power
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| Balaverde |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:07
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Domestique
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Another aspect is greed. You dont really want the rider but you think oh well ill go for him anyway, raising the price.
Also, selfishness. If your maximum price for a rider is 150,000, stick to it. Don't keep bidding with someone higher than that will the sole intent of them paying more.
...
Anyway, Im glad theres a break but I can only see things escalating madly once again on Monday.
SN, I understand why your saying this - but it's riddiculous to think that people will not use every tool or smart move to make their opponents pay a bit more.
Furthermore, they will never be stuck on their "fake-bid" and actually buy a rider they're completely uninterested in, because there's way too much room in the budget for the players they force to up their bidding.
It's like pot-stealing in a game of poker with no blinds higher than 20 eurocents.
If you catch my drift.
And though I understand why the transfer-break was introduced (I guess everyone online yesterday do, really) I agree with your last sentence.
Monday is gonna be even more insane than yesterday. For sure. |
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| zutcorp |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:13
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Domestique
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I also think what we may need to end this all in silent bids. Otherwise we run the risk of this thing dragging on for weeks and weeks, while we get one more bid every 47 hours...
I realise theres no perfect way to do this, and I appluad SN and crommy for all your work and thought put into this. It has made a very intersting game so far, that I care enough about to thinj about this during the day.
I think what we have to do is to say: We let this run for a set amount of time, ie 2 weeks. Any rider not bid on for 48 hours is signed and that that. Riders who are heavily contested must end sometime, and the only fair thing is a silent auction, but ill support any decision you guys make.
I still hold that the problem with signing to many or to few is serious. If I bid "realisticly" on all my 5 favourite riders, and noone else, I run a serious risk of getting only 1 rider. And i still need 4 more! where will they come from once the transfer market has closed? Instead id want to sign rider 6,7 and 8 on my shortlist.
the more i think of this the more I liked the drafts, since this is very hard to get right without serious software help.
I mean what we really SHOULD have is a MMORPG style marketplace like from World of warcraft, BO prices and all that kind of thing!
Manager of Protour champions 2008, Carlsberg Cycling!! (wow is it that long ago I was in the management game?)
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:16
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i say Crommy sets a date for the end of the window and the unsolved rider transfers get put into a silent auction, between anyone who wants him, they PM Crommy with a number, the highest amount paid gets him, simple as
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:18
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Team Manager
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Addy291 wrote:
i say Crommy sets a date for the end of the window and the unsolved rider transfers get put into a silent auction, between anyone who wants him, they PM Crommy with a number, the highest amount paid gets him, simple as
Best idea ive heard so far, although im not much of a fan of silent auctions.
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:19
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i'm not either, but i don't know how else it would work
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
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| Balaverde |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:21
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Domestique
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or we'll decrease the "48 hours" limit every two days (or another amount of days) to 24, then 12, then 6, then 3... so people on the other side of the planet won't have too many problems, but will possibly endure some trouble in the last days.
at least - that way we'll make it (more?) fair and not-forever-lasting... |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:21
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Grand Tour Champion
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Ok, given the absolute chaos of the transfer period, I may actually work on this silent auction business (which is more true to life), and scrap the current free agency.
All transfers and steals would remain though
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:24
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so no more making new threads and bidding?
if so what about threads that have already been opened and someone is leading, does that offer get scrapped and started again?
or if there is a thread with no bids just like say Rasmussen was wanted by 1 person who bid 50,000 yesterday and noone else bid, then they would still get him??
(i'm not too sure that last question makes sense)
Edited by Addy291 on 23-08-2007 16:24
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:25
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Grand Tour Champion
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It does, and at the moment, this isn't a certainty, but I'm more going for your idea Addy
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:26
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Team Leader
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well i like my idea too
YORKSHIRE BORN, YORKSHIRE BRED... |
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| Balaverde |
Posted on 23-08-2007 16:29
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Domestique
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I think the silent bid-thing will be (even more) frustrating, but I really don't know...
I guess that people will be more impatient and demand a resolution - in the thread way all players are able to communicate while buying/selling and that way the players will have answers on their problems and won't have to bid in secrecy...
Second of all, Crommy will have a real shitty time collecting silent bids... |
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