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Giro d'Italia 2010
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2010 19:17
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Tour de France Champion
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arthon wrote:
Jens Voigt in 2008 recorded a better time than Basso in 2010. I'm baffled.
Bio passport + new test for more recent forms of EPO.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Juan |
Posted on 25-05-2010 19:22
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Bosskardo wrote:
Well, Gadre has had good performances once a while. He was quite strong on Alpe de Huez when Sastre won it.
Impossible, as he abandonned on stage 7 of 2008 Tour de France. 
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| lup_andrei |
Posted on 25-05-2010 19:33
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Gadret comes from cyclocross + that he is in tip-top shape. No surprise for me Gadret today. |
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| Biathlon |
Posted on 25-05-2010 19:39
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What is wrong with Sastre?
Words to live by
"What would Lance do?"
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| Juan |
Posted on 25-05-2010 19:49
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lup_andrei wrote:
Gadret comes from cyclocross + that he is in tip-top shape. No surprise for me Gadret today.
So, that means that everyone coming from cyclocross is able to do such a performance in such a TT. And, as I said, Basso or Nibali aren't in top form as well ?
That result shows me obviously that after the Valjavec case, AG2R isn't a reall y trustable team, which is bad for a French team, which normally are to be the cleanest in the world.
Strange to be arguing against a French rider. 
Edited by Juan on 25-05-2010 19:53
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2010 19:56
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Tour de France Champion
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Juan wrote:
lup_andrei wrote:
Gadret comes from cyclocross + that he is in tip-top shape. No surprise for me Gadret today.
So, that means that everyone coming from cyclocross is able to do such a performance in such a TT. And, as I said, Basso or Nibali aren't in top form as well ?
That result shows me obviously that after the Valjavec case, AG2R isn't a reall y trustable team, which is bad for a French team, which normally are to be the cleanest in the world.
Strange to be arguing against a French rider.
Never trust AG2R. Same went for Agritubel, but they've ended now.
Same goes for a lot of small french continental teams, though.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| lup_andrei |
Posted on 25-05-2010 20:09
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Anyway, we can suspect anybody as we like. 6 days ago italians had no stage victory, now they have 5 in a row (Pipo, Beletti, Nibali, Basso, Garzelli). Scarponi or Cunego tomorrow? It may suit them very well.
Edited by lup_andrei on 25-05-2010 20:13
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| Bosskardo |
Posted on 25-05-2010 20:26
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Juan wrote:
Bosskardo wrote:
Well, Gadre has had good performances once a while. He was quite strong on Alpe de Huez when Sastre won it.
Impossible, as he abandonned on stage 7 of 2008 Tour de France.
Yeah, must have mistaken someone else for him. But i found out he was 8th in Fleche Wallonne 2007.
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 25-05-2010 20:50
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Juan wrote:
lup_andrei wrote:
Gadret comes from cyclocross + that he is in tip-top shape. No surprise for me Gadret today.
So, that means that everyone coming from cyclocross is able to do such a performance in such a TT. And, as I said, Basso or Nibali aren't in top form as well ?
That result shows me obviously that after the Valjavec case, AG2R isn't a reall y trustable team, which is bad for a French team, which normally are to be the cleanest in the world.
Strange to be arguing against a French rider.
I just want to say that his pure climbing skills are very (very) high. If most of stage's would contain only climb with 10+ percentage you would see what im talking about, but for many pure climbers like Rujano as example problems are before real climb is even started.
https://www.cyclin...de-corones
Edited by I_Mayo on 25-05-2010 20:59
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| kumazan |
Posted on 25-05-2010 20:50
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Gadret testing postive in 3...2...1
Nah, seriously, that guy is the logical successor of the likes of Sella, Pellizotti or Riccò from 2008. And the rest day was very good for Garzelli too.
Besides that, good race by Arroyo and Porte, they are resisting more than I expected, specially Porte, and how good can you feel watching an asshole like Gerdemann being slower than Arashiro in a climb like this? |
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 25-05-2010 20:54
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lol did you see arroyo`s mechanic running behind him with spare bike  |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 12:46
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| BouBBox |
Posted on 25-05-2010 21:18
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Looks like people aren't happy when a Frenchmen does a good result XD
Don't try your best Gadret! if ever you do a good result people will accuse you of doping...
He is a cyclocross champion, he is in good shape, this stage was made for him! I was expecting a good result from him : that's what he did
Edited by BouBBox on 25-05-2010 21:20
Team Europcar !!
RIP Wouter
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| lasol |
Posted on 25-05-2010 21:21
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Gadret can climb high prosentage ascents well. There are different climbers. Others are good at 5-7% like vino. Some are best at 7-9% and some are most suited to 10+% gradient. I'm certain Gadret likes the steep ones best. Like Gibo.
I'm not hugely surprised of his 3rd place.
Please reduce the quessing of future doping cases etc. IMO there's no point there. when there's one, they'll tell us.
I'm convinced ppl are not as doped as in the past. Some of them dope surely, but I'm certain theres not as much stuff used and not as much different products. |
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| NicolaiR |
Posted on 25-05-2010 21:49
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For everyone screaming about the differences between 2008 n 2010. Some riders stated that the gravel was softer and wormer this year. Sure some of the riders were doped in 08 *Pelezotti, Sella, Ricco", but it was easier then.
If Voigt did it better than Basso, surely it has something to do with the road/weather. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2010 21:53
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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NicolaiR wrote:
For everyone screaming about the differences between 2008 n 2010. Some riders stated that the gravel was softer and wormer this year. Sure some of the riders were doped in 08 *Pelezotti, Sella, Ricco", but it was easier then.
If Voigt did it better than Basso, surely it has something to do with the road/weather.
And for you criticising us for not noticing the gravel, please read our posts
We mentioned the gravel. Specifically, we mentioned the fact that this new gravel has a lot more grip and the riders' rear wheels weren't slipping around all over the place like they were in 2008. Massive advantage for the 2010 riders.
Plus, the 2008 stage was at the end of a long week, before the rest day. This stage was just after a rest day. Another major advantage for the 2010 riders.
And they were still massively slower.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| NicolaiR |
Posted on 25-05-2010 21:59
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issoisso wrote:
NicolaiR wrote:
For everyone screaming about the differences between 2008 n 2010. Some riders stated that the gravel was softer and wormer this year. Sure some of the riders were doped in 08 *Pelezotti, Sella, Ricco", but it was easier then.
If Voigt did it better than Basso, surely it has something to do with the road/weather.
And for you criticising us for not noticing the gravel, please read our posts
We mentioned the gravel. Specifically, we mentioned the fact that this new gravel has a lot more grip and the riders' rear wheels weren't slipping around all over the place like they were in 2008. Massive advantage for the 2010 riders.
Plus, the 2008 stage was at the end of a long week, before the rest day. This stage was just after a rest day. Another major advantage for the 2010 riders.
And they were still massively slower.
This last page doesn't really show that this has been discussed b4.
...Obviously that can't be the case. The gravel for this year must have been worse, you can't really believe that EVERY of at least the top 80 riders of 2008 were doped?
I don't see a reason to speculate too much. We know that Sella, Peli and Ricco were doped. They are the only once that have been caught. If you take them away, 2008 still crush 2010, which means that it have to have something with the gravel/weather.
Edited by NicolaiR on 25-05-2010 22:00
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| lagetcher |
Posted on 25-05-2010 22:08
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Bosskardo wrote:
Juan wrote:
Bosskardo wrote:
Well, Gadre has had good performances once a while. He was quite strong on Alpe de Huez when Sastre won it.
Impossible, as he abandonned on stage 7 of 2008 Tour de France.
Yeah, must have mistaken someone else for him. But i found out he was 8th in Fleche Wallonne 2007.
I reckon you mean Goubert for Alp d'Huez. Although I recall that was a particularly good stage for AG2R, with I think Efimkin and Valjavec up there in the lead group also up the Alp.
But certainly, Gadret was a major surprise today. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2010 22:15
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Tour de France Champion
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NicolaiR wrote:
This last page doesn't really show that this has been discussed b4.
Nobody said it was just the last page
NicolaiR wrote:
...Obviously that can't be the case.
Obviously? How is it obvious?
NicolaiR wrote:
The gravel for this year must have been worse,
The riders commented it was better. Which makes sense, since two years ago it was loose gravel and this year it was a tightly packed asphalt-like mix of small stones to form a sort of matress.
NicolaiR wrote:
you can't really believe that EVERY of at least the top 80 riders of 2008 were doped?
Who said I believe that? And how exactly did you come to that number? 80 riders.
Tell ya what. Let's see who in the top 80 (since you mention the top 80) improved from 2008 to 2010, shall we?
Nibali. Was, by his own admission, off form at that Giro and still building for the Tour.
Marco Pinotti, Damien Monier, Stephen Cummings, Bradley Wiggins, Julian Dean
Basically the few riders I consider have a decent chance of riding clean. Now look at everyone else in the top 80 who rode both editions. A cesspool of riders on teams with doping programmes who've had a ton of riders caught.
NicolaiR wrote:
I don't see a reason to speculate too much. We know that Sella, Peli and Ricco were doped. They are the only once that have been caught. If you take them away, 2008 still crush 2010, which means that it have to have something with the gravel/weather.
There's a monstrous fault in your argument. You're assuming everyone else in 2008 was clean.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ruben |
Posted on 25-05-2010 22:25
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Grand Tour Champion
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Juan wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
Juan wrote:
Mmh... Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is REALLY John Gadret 3rd ? 
Oh my God...
and what suprises you in Gadret performance? i think he fits perfectly for this kind of stage
There's a difference between being a rather good climber, with some quite decent results, and finishing 3rd on one of the hardest climbs in Europe, ahead of the likes of Nibali, Scarponi or Basso.
I mean, didn't that stage also perfectly fit Scarponi or Basso, knowing their form ?
You completely disregard one thing
ENDURANCE
A climb after a 200km stage gives much different results, than a climb straight from the start and then finish after 12km
Gadret comes from Cyclocross, where 45m/1h efforts are normal.
He doesn't have the endurance to be with the best climbers after a 200+km stage
Why do people always think a mountain TT is the same as amountain stage? Do people even know what endurance is I wonder |
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| NicolaiR |
Posted on 25-05-2010 22:26
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issoisso wrote:
NicolaiR wrote:
This last page doesn't really show that this has been discussed b4.
Nobody said it was just the last page
NicolaiR wrote:
...Obviously that can't be the case.
Obviously? How is it obvious?
NicolaiR wrote:
The gravel for this year must have been worse,
The riders commented it was better. Which makes sense, since two years ago it was loose gravel and this year it was a tightly packed asphalt-like mix of small stones to form a sort of matress.
NicolaiR wrote:
you can't really believe that EVERY of at least the top 80 riders of 2008 were doped?
Who said I believe that? And how exactly did you come to that number? 80 riders.
Tell ya what. Let's see who in the top 80 (since you mention the top 80) improved from 2008 to 2010, shall we?
Nibali. Was, by his own admission, off form at that Giro and still building for the Tour.
Marco Pinotti, Damien Monier, Stephen Cummings, Bradley Wiggins, Julian Dean
Basically the few riders I consider have a decent chance of riding clean. Now look at everyone else in the top 80 who rode both editions. A cesspool of riders on teams with doping programmes who've had a ton of riders caught.
NicolaiR wrote:
I don't see a reason to speculate too much. We know that Sella, Peli and Ricco were doped. They are the only once that have been caught. If you take them away, 2008 still crush 2010, which means that it have to have something with the gravel/weather.
There's a monstrous fault in your argument. You're assuming everyone else in 2008 was clean.
No, I don't say that everyone else was clean. But I said that they were the once that was caught.
It's to ridiculous to discuss too much about this, because the average speed was obviously was much BETTER 2 years ago. What does that tell you? That "everyone" in 2008 was doped. That is wrong. It maybe a few less doped riders this year, or it could be more.
The real reason why it went better for everyone, except dose who have become much better riders like, Wiggins and Nibali, have to be other conditions than dope. Why can't you realize that? |
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