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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Stairs |
Posted on 11-07-2013 22:49
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Neo-Pro
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Yeah, Sky probably have enough connections, enough money, to have their back covered
Never.
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 11-07-2013 23:00
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Classics Specialist
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fcancellara wrote:
In cycling the "(x) is better because of more red blood cells cause he lived at an higher altitude" argument actually only goes for Colombians.
Living at a higher altitude gives a similar effect as EPO. Therefore it is a good sign that the Colombians are back amongst the world's best cyclists, as they sort of disappeared from the scene in the early 90's, when EPO became popular.
It's thought the effect of altitude wears off pretty quickly. Whether you have a training camp there or have lived there your entire life the body aclimatises to a new (more typical altitude) environment. Here's one interesting piece on it and some of the science behind it and an exert from there below https://inrng.com/2013/04/colombia-cyc...-altitude/
"Humans can acclimatise to altitude but having scanned the literature there’s little permanent benefit. In other words you can go on an altitude training camp for a few weeks, you can stay for a few months or even a few years and your blood chemistry will adapt to the hypoxia from the altitude but once you go back down towards sea level the gains are lost. This is to skip over the subtleties of altitude training but for the sake of brevity, the gains, if you get them, can be totally lost in a month."
Edited by ianrussell on 11-07-2013 23:02
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 11-07-2013 23:05
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Team Leader
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It can't only be Omerta can it? Well the blatancy of their performances and the sense of impunity of their comments looks familiar indeed.
But the team is so much weaker this year. It doesn't have got anything to do with the UK Postal of 2012. That's intriguing to say the least.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 11-07-2013 23:16
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Gustavovskiy wrote:
He obviously saved his first 5 years of his proffesional career, he's surely not going feel fatigued before 2030.
I'm curious to know their secret, though. It can't only be pharmacogenetics and it can't only be microdosing. What is it then?
They're probably on the last stuff available, they rich enough to afford that.
Given how thin they are or some of them have suddenly gotten, I'd bet my ass that the core of their GT team is on Aicar + GW 1516 (both work in combination). It reduces weight in major proportions and increase endurance.
Then, most likely, they're microdosing the last gen of EPO (can't be detected yet it seems), and blood transfusing small amounts of blood (like 150 ml, the time for 500 or 600 ml at once is gone).
Insulin too, it helps recovery by increasing the ability to restore glycogen in the body.
Possibly HGH, although it's not obvious (for obvious cases : pick any French swimming champion from the last decade). I'm quite impressed by Froome's musculature, especially given how thin he is. His quadriceps are very developed...
I don't know if they'd get so low that they'd use corticoids too. That's for poor cyclists.
Aicar, and last gen EPO cost a lot. Like in really a lot, even for Sky. I guess that's why only 5 or 6 of their riders really benefit from that.
edit : I forgot to add that their medical staff is top quality, no matter how you look at it. From the doping viewpoint, they probably master the pharmacokinetics of every PED they use, so they know how much, at what time of the day and how often they can take what, without any feat of a positive test.
Edited by Aquarius on 11-07-2013 23:19
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| cosmic |
Posted on 11-07-2013 23:21
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Stagiare
Posts: 171
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They are weaker, but there's also a few factors making it even more obvious. Last year guys like Nibali and Van den Broeck had pretty crap support, compared to what Saxo and Movistar have this year. Additionally the route was fairly easy, with only 2(?) top finishes, and lots of TT.
That being said, guys like Siutsou, Lopez and Hagen haven't exactly been impressive this year. I don't know how much can be contributed to getting extra work due to riders being injured early though.
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| Kami |
Posted on 11-07-2013 23:32
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3485
Joined: 19-06-2009
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Aquarius wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
He obviously saved his first 5 years of his proffesional career, he's surely not going feel fatigued before 2030.
I'm curious to know their secret, though. It can't only be pharmacogenetics and it can't only be microdosing. What is it then?
They're probably on the last stuff available, they rich enough to afford that.
Given how thin they are or some of them have suddenly gotten, I'd bet my ass that the core of their GT team is on Aicar + GW 1516 (both work in combination). It reduces weight in major proportions and increase endurance.
I've read that GW501516 has a pretty high chance of causing cancer, at whatever dose taken. Isn't this an incredibly high risk to take, even for TdF victory?
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 11-07-2013 23:33
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3440
Joined: 09-10-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Aquarius wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
He obviously saved his first 5 years of his proffesional career, he's surely not going feel fatigued before 2030.
I'm curious to know their secret, though. It can't only be pharmacogenetics and it can't only be microdosing. What is it then?
They're probably on the last stuff available, they rich enough to afford that.
Given how thin they are or some of them have suddenly gotten, I'd bet my ass that the core of their GT team is on Aicar + GW 1516 (both work in combination). It reduces weight in major proportions and increase endurance.
Then, most likely, they're microdosing the last gen of EPO (can't be detected yet it seems), and blood transfusing small amounts of blood (like 150 ml, the time for 500 or 600 ml at once is gone).
Insulin too, it helps recovery by increasing the ability to restore glycogen in the body.
Possibly HGH, although it's not obvious (for obvious cases : pick any French swimming champion from the last decade). I'm quite impressed by Froome's musculature, especially given how thin he is. His quadriceps are very developed...
I don't know if they'd get so low that they'd use corticoids too. That's for poor cyclists.
Aicar, and last gen EPO cost a lot. Like in really a lot, even for Sky. I guess that's why only 5 or 6 of their riders really benefit from that.
edit : I forgot to add that their medical staff is top quality, no matter how you look at it. From the doping viewpoint, they probably master the pharmacokinetics of every PED they use, so they know how much, at what time of the day and how often they can take what, without any feat of a positive test.
That would mean keeping an awful lot of people quiet so the good news it should come to a head sooner rather than later if it's the case, just like Armstrong... 
Joking aside of course there was quite a bit of smoke in Lance's case if you could peer between the bullying and lawsuits? Froome strikes me as less bully and more bullied but of course that could be the root of all evil?!
Edited by ianrussell on 11-07-2013 23:43
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 11-07-2013 23:41
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Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Kami wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
He obviously saved his first 5 years of his proffesional career, he's surely not going feel fatigued before 2030.
I'm curious to know their secret, though. It can't only be pharmacogenetics and it can't only be microdosing. What is it then?
They're probably on the last stuff available, they rich enough to afford that.
Given how thin they are or some of them have suddenly gotten, I'd bet my ass that the core of their GT team is on Aicar + GW 1516 (both work in combination). It reduces weight in major proportions and increase endurance.
I've read that GW501516 has a pretty high chance of causing cancer, at whatever dose taken. Isn't this an incredibly high risk to take, even for TdF victory?
https://de.wikiped...an-Dilemma
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 11-07-2013 23:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
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Crommy wrote:
If you don't know veloclinic, ignore the terrible English (it's done on purpose). He uses rigorous analysis to provide genuine evidence of being clean or doping.
"@ammattipyoraily: #TDF, Stage 8. Ax-3-Domaines (first 7.85 km). Chris Froome ["67 kg"]: 21:41. I think that ‘CPL [6.51 W/kg]’ is the most accurate formula."
puts Froomes power well into the range only documented in dopers
I wish I could, but it's so unreadable I can't be bothered  I still don't get why he doesn't just write in normal, understandable English...
Edited by CrueTrue on 11-07-2013 23:51
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 11-07-2013 23:53
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Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
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CrueTrue wrote:
Crommy wrote:
If you don't know veloclinic, ignore the terrible English (it's done on purpose). He uses rigorous analysis to provide genuine evidence of being clean or doping.
"@ammattipyoraily: #TDF, Stage 8. Ax-3-Domaines (first 7.85 km). Chris Froome ["67 kg"]: 21:41. I think that ‘CPL [6.51 W/kg]’ is the most accurate formula."
puts Froomes power well into the range only documented in dopers
I wish I could, but it's so unreadable I can't be bothered I still don't get why he doesn't just write in normal, understandable English...
isso linked to this: https://www.outsid...tml?page=1
which is him talking normally.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 12-07-2013 00:02
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
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Yep, did read that one. Wish that was his standard rather than the usual nonsense |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 08:35
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 12-07-2013 00:28
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Team Leader
Posts: 6036
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Aquarius wrote:
They're probably on the last stuff available, they rich enough to afford that.
Given how thin they are or some of them have suddenly gotten, I'd bet my ass that the core of their GT team is on Aicar + GW 1516 (both work in combination). It reduces weight in major proportions and increase endurance.
Then, most likely, they're microdosing the last gen of EPO (can't be detected yet it seems), and blood transfusing small amounts of blood (like 150 ml, the time for 500 or 600 ml at once is gone).
Insulin too, it helps recovery by increasing the ability to restore glycogen in the body.
Possibly HGH, although it's not obvious (for obvious cases : pick any French swimming champion from the last decade). I'm quite impressed by Froome's musculature, especially given how thin he is. His quadriceps are very developed...
I don't know if they'd get so low that they'd use corticoids too. That's for poor cyclists.
Aicar, and last gen EPO cost a lot. Like in really a lot, even for Sky. I guess that's why only 5 or 6 of their riders really benefit from that.
edit : I forgot to add that their medical staff is top quality, no matter how you look at it. From the doping viewpoint, they probably master the pharmacokinetics of every PED they use, so they know how much, at what time of the day and how often they can take what, without any feat of a positive test.
Wow that's great, thanks Aqua. It gets so much easier to understand how they can avoid positive controls with an explanation like that.
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| cachirro |
Posted on 12-07-2013 01:36
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Under 23
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Joined: 25-07-2008
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i don't believe in clean cycling, otherwise they wouldn't perform the way they do in such terrible physical conditions as TDF, specially people that outperform everyone by far, in this case Froom, how can a rider that comes out of nowhere suddenly be unbeaten? i would accept that from a rider that at junior level starts to get notice, and then progresses to a top senior athlete.
there are way to many examples, the scandalous Armstrong case just proves that anything is possible when you can fool everyone to win 7 straight years.
so, there's no clean cycling for sure, it's a just a game where they try to be ahead of the anti doping methods. |
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| XxMillad24Xx |
Posted on 12-07-2013 01:39
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Stagiare
Posts: 235
Joined: 21-06-2012
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cachirro wrote: i would accept that from a rider that at junior level starts to get notice, and then progresses to a top senior athlete.
That is why I have always believed guys like Andy Schleck, Sagan, maybe even Cavendish, Dombrowski, Phinney, etc. are clean riders, malnley because they showed talent from the start.
"Cycling is now the the world's cleanest sport." - Chris Froome
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 12-07-2013 01:43
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World Champion
Posts: 13915
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XxMillad24Xx wrote:
cachirro wrote: i would accept that from a rider that at junior level starts to get notice, and then progresses to a top senior athlete.
That is why I have always believed guys like Andy Schleck, Sagan, maybe even Cavendish, Dombrowski, Phinney, etc. are clean riders, malnley because they showed talent from the start.
Being clean runs in the family 
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| XxMillad24Xx |
Posted on 12-07-2013 01:45
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Stagiare
Posts: 235
Joined: 21-06-2012
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alexkr00 wrote:
XxMillad24Xx wrote:
cachirro wrote: i would accept that from a rider that at junior level starts to get notice, and then progresses to a top senior athlete.
That is why I have always believed guys like Andy Schleck, Sagan, maybe even Cavendish, Dombrowski, Phinney, etc. are clean riders, malnley because they showed talent from the start.
Being clean runs in the family
The thing about Frank is he sucked in that tour, so I believe he's innocent (I'm biased though so don't take much from it)
And come on, Andy was fantastic since he was 20 years old.
Edited by XxMillad24Xx on 12-07-2013 01:45
"Cycling is now the the world's cleanest sport." - Chris Froome
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 12-07-2013 01:47
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World Champion
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And by fantastic you mean being in shape 24 days per year?
Edited by alexkr00 on 12-07-2013 01:48
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| XxMillad24Xx |
Posted on 12-07-2013 01:49
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Stagiare
Posts: 235
Joined: 21-06-2012
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alexkr00 wrote:
And by fantastic you mean being in shape 24 days per year?
you know what I mean 
"Cycling is now the the world's cleanest sport." - Chris Froome
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 12-07-2013 01:55
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World Champion
Posts: 13915
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Well, let's just say Andy Schleck is a bit more credible than Chris Froome, because he didn't come from nowhere to win the Tour de France.
But doing crap all season long and then being "fantastic" at the Tour (in 2009,2010,2011 that is) is not an indication of a clean rider. Not to mention his brother's connections to Dr. Fuentes and the doping scandal from last year. And we all know how close Andy and his brother are.
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 12-07-2013 04:07
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World Champion
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Hahahah Andy clean. 
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