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Giro d'Italia 2010
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 24-05-2010 20:25
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BenBarnes wrote:
Do you believe Basso to be clean? And I'm not all caught up on Sassi's background other than he is currently working with Basso and Evans. I'm not sure. He's a hell of a lot cleaner than he used to be, that's for sure.
Clean or not clean, that's the question. According to cyclismag, Contador last year would have finished 3 minutes earlier than Basso this year on Zonconlan. And Basso 2006 would have put the same gap to Basso 2010. Also Basso is talking about real cycling now (despite not admitting he actually cheated before).
Still, no matter that he'd be clean or not now, he still benefits from the long term effects of doping. He's gained endurance at one point of his career thanks to doping, which allowed him to train longer and harder, and he still benefits from a bit of that extra endurance. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 24-05-2010 20:31
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Hmm interesting point Aquarius.
A hypothesis: what if a, somewhat talented ofcourse, recrational cyclist would dope himself, do incredible, unbelievable trainings up to the max. Do this for 2 years and then stop doping and start racing (beyond the point doping is traceable), could he be a lot better? |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 24-05-2010 20:45
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ruben wrote:
Hmm interesting point Aquarius.
A hypothesis: what if a, somewhat talented ofcourse, recrational cyclist would dope himself, do incredible, unbelievable trainings up to the max. Do this for 2 years and then stop doping and start racing (beyond the point doping is traceable), could he be a lot better? You got the point. Although "a lot" is really difficult to quantify.
In his first year of racing he'd get a certain advantage on his opponents, allowing him to ride stronger/harder than what he normally would. So that extra he'd do would also develop his skills and use them as an advantage in the future.
To make it mathematical, his advantage on an equally talented rider would be important in the first year, and would then decrease all their career long to eventually become asymptotic to the clean rider's level. Can't say whether it'd take four years of twelve years to have it nullified though; I really don't have a clue, and it would probably depend on the dope that was used, the reaction of the rider to that dope, etc. People don't all react the same to the dope.
Same goes for T.Dekker, he'll also keep an advantage from his previous years habits, even if he comes back clean in a couple of months.  |
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| ruben |
Posted on 24-05-2010 20:51
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I think he was clean in 2009, that was downright terrible |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 24-05-2010 20:54
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Aquarius wrote:
BenBarnes wrote:
Do you believe Basso to be clean? And I'm not all caught up on Sassi's background other than he is currently working with Basso and Evans. I'm not sure. He's a hell of a lot cleaner than he used to be, that's for sure.
Clean or not clean, that's the question. According to cyclismag, Contador last year would have finished 3 minutes earlier than Basso this year on Zonconlan. And Basso 2006 would have put the same gap to Basso 2010. Also Basso is talking about real cycling now (despite not admitting he actually cheated before).
Cycling enthusiasts have figured out for themselves what happened - Ivan Basso
Aquarius wrote:
Same goes for T.Dekker, he'll also keep an advantage from his previous years habits, even if he comes back clean in a couple of months.
Don't encourage him
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 24-05-2010 21:01
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Do you believe Basso to be clean? And I'm not all caught up on Sassi's background other than he is currently working with Basso and Evans.
He is clean, for sure 
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| mattiasgt |
Posted on 24-05-2010 21:03
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issoisso wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
More importantly, remember that the rest days are the days for 'reloading' with a pack of new boosted red blood cells
You know the CO2 haemoglobin test? The test for autologous blood transfusions that exists but the WADA refuses to use?
Sassi tests Basso with it regularly. And Basso posts the results along with all his other test results.
He's not on blood transfusions.
Where does he do that? I couldn't find anything on his website.
(Previously) Manager of Koenigsegg
Koenigsegg: ( Media)
Livin' Loud |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 24-05-2010 21:08
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mattiasgt wrote:
issoisso wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
More importantly, remember that the rest days are the days for 'reloading' with a pack of new boosted red blood cells
You know the CO2 haemoglobin test? The test for autologous blood transfusions that exists but the WADA refuses to use?
Sassi tests Basso with it regularly. And Basso posts the results along with all his other test results.
He's not on blood transfusions.
Where does he do that? I couldn't find anything on his website.
https://www.mapeis...so/?LNG=EN
You need to register.
EDIT: i should mention he also puts his training data there.
Edited by issoisso on 24-05-2010 21:11
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| mattiasgt |
Posted on 24-05-2010 22:00
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Thanks isso.
(Previously) Manager of Koenigsegg
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| SotD |
Posted on 24-05-2010 22:15
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ponka00 wrote:
SotD wrote:
I don't think he will lose 4 minutes on those 12kms, but he might lose 2 or so...
He lost 3:50 up Zoncolan, and the Plan de Corones is arguably a much tougher climb, so I don't see why it isn't possible for Arroyo to lose 4 minutes tomorrow.
Well Arroyo didn't seem strong at all from the beginning of that last climb. Why? Perhaps because of 207km of climbing terrain.
Tomorrow is 12km ONLY. He won't lose 4 minutes there. I'm quite sure.
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| SotD |
Posted on 24-05-2010 22:17
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Yeh, as someone - probably isso - mentioned the other day, Basso goes better after a more consistently tough pace, as Liquigas set in the build up to Zoncolan.
Sastre will benefit from being able to go solely at his own pace, but im not convinced a mountain time trial suits him - in terms of being the best. As the Giro climbs so far has shown, he takes longer to get into a strong rhythm, and he was also not so good last year on the Blockhaus stage.
Add to the fact that he may not be in the greatest condition, then maybe it is not so ideal.
Personally, Im interested to see how well Szmyd goes - if he pushes for it. Or whether he will be saving his legs for mountain stages to come. And for the stage win, its tricky, but Ill say Evans.
I have been going for Vinokourov myself. I feel like he have been doing quite well considering that he have been dropped fairly early on both tough climbs so far.
He is also normally a very good TT'er and he got that winners instinct that will be important also. Evans was my 2nd bet, so let's see 
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 24-05-2010 22:20
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Evgeny Petrov.
One of the few riders who managed to get a top 30 last time we ran this stage, and who has returned. Others include Nibali and Szymd.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| SotD |
Posted on 24-05-2010 22:24
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
Do you believe Basso to be clean? And I'm not all caught up on Sassi's background other than he is currently working with Basso and Evans.
He is clean, for sure
You got the proper name to make that statement
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| lup_andrei |
Posted on 24-05-2010 22:40
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I think Arroyo will lose tomorrow a maximum 1'30"-1'40" to the stage winner. I also think he will keep the jersey for sure untill stage18, because peio terme isn't such a hard stage. Of course, we'll live and see. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 24-05-2010 22:49
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SotD wrote:
I have been going for Vinokourov myself. I feel like he have been doing quite well considering that he have been dropped fairly early on both tough climbs so far.
He is also normally a very good TT'er and he got that winners instinct that will be important also.
This not about TT..this is about climbing. Evans, Basso, ..Sastre should finaly start something. Can't wait what Szmydt can do. Cunego maybe
and Arroyo will loose another 1'30..
It is still hard work to get that pink from Arroyo
Edited by Guido Mukk on 24-05-2010 22:50
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| Phanekim |
Posted on 24-05-2010 23:09
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isso do you really believe basso is clean? |
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| Wiggo |
Posted on 24-05-2010 23:11
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He never said he was clean... |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 24-05-2010 23:16
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It's hard to believe he's 100% clean after all, but if he's riding without blood refuelling he's in disadvantage with a fair amount of GC riders, so what he's been doing is pretty good. |
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| Ozzy |
Posted on 25-05-2010 00:47
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Guido Mukk wrote:
This not about TT..this is about climbing. Evans, Basso, ..Sastre should finaly start something. Can't wait what Szmydt can do. Cunego maybe
and Arroyo will loose another 1'30..
It is still hard work to get that pink from Arroyo
Szmyd is taking it easy, as good training, without relentless fight for a good result (at least that's what he wrote on his blog).
Still, it's a bit to steep for him, especially in gravel part. No chance for more than 10th-12th place when riding on 100%.
PS: Interesting remark by rjc -> only 7 riders out of TOP30 of 2008 Kronplatz TT are starting tomorrow: 3. Simoni, 13. Petrov, 14. Larsson, 16. Szmyd, 18. Nibali, 25. Possoni, 26. Chris Sorensen. Shows how quickly are things changing in peloton... |
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| Phanekim |
Posted on 25-05-2010 05:00
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Wiggo wrote:
He never said he was clean...
but he's not on blood transfusions? |
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