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Vuelta a Espana Discussion Thread
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| dave92 |
Posted on 12-06-2013 15:58
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Great sprint by Goss, considering he was not in the best position behind Meyer as his leadout. 2 stage wins for him so far can only be considered a success with the unpredictability of sprints.
Denifl has been going as well as could be expected in the mountains and if he could finish in 6th or 7th that would be a very good result, the goal was top 10 coming in.
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| ember |
Posted on 12-06-2013 20:05
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Decent stuff by Impey. Now I'm looking forward for stage 15, where I either expect us to show up in the breakaway or perform according to the secret masterplan which should see us fall behind Simply Red Bull in the team standings 
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 12-06-2013 21:08
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Another good calm flat stage, I still don't think I will win, but I'm starting to get hopeful.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 09-12-2025 19:17
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 12-06-2013 21:55
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Smowz wrote:
SotD wrote:
I really can't seem to crack the sprint code. I have tried sprint trains, no sprint trains, good sprinters, sub top sprinters, shit sprinters. I'm still to find a way to make a consistant pointshaul from it. I guess I'll go for 1 top sprinter next season and absolutely no sprinters in the other races to atleast go for some breakaways.
I understand your pain here - I really though Guerao would be good odds for two or three stages here. I suppose you could say he lacks a few stats that guys like Holloway, Goss, Impey and Van Stayen have but I would have thought his nationality (and at least equal sprint) would have won through.
I do think if you have a sprinter, it has got to be a good one else the odd podium is probably the best you can hope for. Often these second tier guys don't even get involved in the sprint.
The top names are not going to come cheap - I think I was very lucky to get Van Heerden and Van Stayen for reasonable prices.
'Going for breakaways' is also very hit and miss I reckon - no way to rely on steady stream of points.
Amazing speed from Van Stayen on that stage by the way who has these great turbo charged moments, I have to be pleased with second considering he was nowhere to begin with.
I dont think the problem is with Guerao, I think the problem is with the support. With PCM11 and PCM12, if you have a top sprinter, your team are going to lead him out. So if you dont have good options there, you are in trouble.
With sprint trains as they are here, its all about Holloway, or who manages to get Holloway's wheel. Pokerstars are a notch above the rest when they can call on Degenkolb as lead out man.
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| Rin |
Posted on 12-06-2013 22:06
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Well the code is simple you can also see this at the TDF game of Cyanide:
The 3 best sprinters will set-up a sprint train (even they only can do it, if you have a weaker sprinter you won't be there even able to do a sprint train) with their riders of their team, the other possibly 4-10 (next best) ones will try to hang on the sprint train or just sprint from a next to the sprint train position.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 12-06-2013 23:28
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Nice attempt by Kreder there. He'll get plenty of GT stage wins in the next years
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| SotD |
Posted on 13-06-2013 07:48
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Smowz wrote:
SotD wrote:
I really can't seem to crack the sprint code. I have tried sprint trains, no sprint trains, good sprinters, sub top sprinters, shit sprinters. I'm still to find a way to make a consistant pointshaul from it. I guess I'll go for 1 top sprinter next season and absolutely no sprinters in the other races to atleast go for some breakaways.
I understand your pain here - I really though Guerao would be good odds for two or three stages here. I suppose you could say he lacks a few stats that guys like Holloway, Goss, Impey and Van Stayen have but I would have thought his nationality (and at least equal sprint) would have won through.
I do think if you have a sprinter, it has got to be a good one else the odd podium is probably the best you can hope for. Often these second tier guys don't even get involved in the sprint.
The top names are not going to come cheap - I think I was very lucky to get Van Heerden and Van Stayen for reasonable prices.
'Going for breakaways' is also very hit and miss I reckon - no way to rely on steady stream of points.
Amazing speed from Van Stayen on that stage by the way who has these great turbo charged moments, I have to be pleased with second considering he was nowhere to begin with.
I dont think the problem is with Guerao, I think the problem is with the support. With PCM11 and PCM12, if you have a top sprinter, your team are going to lead him out. So if you dont have good options there, you are in trouble.
With sprint trains as they are here, its all about Holloway, or who manages to get Holloway's wheel. Pokerstars are a notch above the rest when they can call on Degenkolb as lead out man.
So it's more about the leadout man than the actual train? Because I get a substancial amount of subtop sprinters next season with Tzortzakis, Keukeleire and Bouhanni all back from loan out. Both Tzortzakis and Keukeleire are decent sprinters with a better acceleration than Guerao, and both are better on hills/climbs as well. How critical is the flat stat when it comes to leadout train?
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| jph27 |
Posted on 13-06-2013 08:11
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Look at the best leadouts and you'll see that they have good FL, STA, RES, SP and ACC. HIL can help, as can REC in stage races. As I've learned with Napolitano,just having sprinters isn't enough. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 13-06-2013 09:18
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I would also like to point out that no sprinter consistently does well at the top end of this game without at least 67 hill. IMO that's Guerao's real problem, particularly in Grand Tours where it makes him lose plenty of energy across most stages.
Edited by CountArach on 13-06-2013 09:19
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| SotD |
Posted on 13-06-2013 09:58
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I agree Count, but he is not facing any of the top sprinters in this race. There are no Boonen, Bewley, Bennati or Swift here.
Obviously hilly and resistance training is high on the priority list for next season, as would flat and acceleration probably be if possible.
I'll have to look more carefully into train-suitable riders in the next off season. I really want to make this sprint thing work.
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| p3druh |
Posted on 13-06-2013 13:57
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Again so close. Second 2nd place in this Vuelta for Maillet. At least this time he gets the KoM jersey.
Nice of Machado to at least try something without going full out.
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| SotD |
Posted on 13-06-2013 14:12
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Chris Anker Sørensen is climbing really poorly here, he should have been up there to support Contador on a stage like this. He has 76MO and 74HI. Instead the best helper, yet again, is Pierre Rolland with 73MO and 70HI.
The stage turned out to be harmless which is quite alright. Contador didn't feel like following the moves and on hindsight he did well. No wasted energy, a good recuperation and some good resistance can hopefully put him on the stage podium tomorrow. Tenorio is the winner of the MO TT surely.
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| ember |
Posted on 13-06-2013 14:42
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That wasn't good from us. We're clearly starting to get tired, but not too tired, as we're extending the lead to Simply Red Bull. That went wrong in all ways possible
Congratulations to p3druh on a second place and the mountain jersey. And congratulations to the winner as well, eventhough it's a shame he hasn't been online since 3rd of May.
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| Sykkel_Freak |
Posted on 13-06-2013 15:07
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ember wrote:
And congratulations to the winner as well, eventhough it's a shame he hasn't been online since 3rd of May.
Up until now! 
Happy to finally see the team win again after a couple of tough months. Craven impressed me the first week of this race and it's nice to finally see him crossing the line first, bringing him up to a solid 5th in the points classification!
Duarte is climbing quite well. 17th in the overall is good, looking at his horrible start in this years Vuelta. I hope he can advance a bit more and end up in the top 15. Would be a great result for us.
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| mattiasgt |
Posted on 13-06-2013 21:00
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Man it hurts seeing Valverde sitting 20th in the GC. You would hope that the AI would be bright enough to send him into a break or something...but of course that won't happen.
Good to see Redondo in the break though, and nice that Granjel Cabrera got a podium.
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 13-06-2013 21:09
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SotD wrote:
I agree Count, but he is not facing any of the top sprinters in this race. There are no Boonen, Bewley, Bennati or Swift here.
Obviously hilly and resistance training is high on the priority list for next season, as would flat and acceleration probably be if possible.
I'll have to look more carefully into train-suitable riders in the next off season. I really want to make this sprint thing work.
So my opinion is that you have two problems with Guerao, his low acceleration, and his lack of a lead out man.
Acceleration in the game controls how long you can sprint for, so it actually works very counter-intuitively compared to what you would think of accelration in real life. So for comparison, think of Guerao like Robbie McEwen, his ideal sprint is one where he pops out of the slipstream with 500m to go.
Now the lead out train, in the game if you have a train, typically your leadout man sprints from about 3km to go, with the main sprinter going from about 1800m. This is because the riders can typically sprint for just over 1km. If Guerao has a leadout dropping him off with 1800m to go, he will run out of energy before the sprinter beside him, or behind him, and hence has to have a higher sprint stat to compensate. However in this race, he has been starting his sprint way back, because Pokerstars are blowing past Sinner, who compounds Guerao's problem by having a rubbish acceleration himself.
I can see three solutions for next year:
1) Improve Gueroa's acceleration massively. This would work, but be expensive. I wouldn't bother with his hill stat, there are enough races in the protour that you don't need to compete in the hilly sprints.
2) Go to the sprinter heavy races. If Guerao is just a top 5 sprinter then you won't have to form your own chain, and hence will probably be better positioned. Also, given the way sprints work, you are often better placed on the wheel of the best chain, rather than in the best chain yourself, as Guerao will sprint later mitigating his poor acceleration. I can see Guerao getting better results against the best of the best, than he does against competition like in the Vuelta.
3) Get a leadout man with excellent acceleration. Merino Cirado was Guerao's leadout man for me because he had 80 ACC, meaning that if he was leading Guerao out, Guerao could sprint later, which covers up his weakness. Tzortzakis and Keukeleire would be ok, but if could get either Michel Kreder, or Merino Criado that would probably be your best bet.
Disclaimer: The above holds for pcm11/12 next season will probably be on pcm13 which may have a different dynamic.
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| SotD |
Posted on 14-06-2013 07:37
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2) Did that in Qatar, worked horribly.
1 and 3 combined is probably my Best bet. Bennati and Boonen are both declining, so he should be top 3 sprinter more often next season than this.
Oh and are we changing the game again?
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 14-06-2013 08:01
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SotD wrote:
Oh and are we changing the game again?
It would be crazy to play one more year with *piece of whatever bad word you know * game like pcm12.
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| SotD |
Posted on 14-06-2013 10:09
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
SotD wrote:
Oh and are we changing the game again?
It would be crazy to play one more year with *piece of whatever bad word you know * game like pcm12.
True, but preferably I would go back to PCM11 before jumping into a game not even existing yet.
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| roturn |
Posted on 14-06-2013 10:12
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It`s still a few months in MG while PCM13 is released next week.
So in case of PCM13 gameplay AI is absolutely horrible, we would know in time I guess.
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