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Armstrong stops fighting doping charges - USADA wants him banned and stripped for titles
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| nutter453 |
Posted on 25-08-2012 07:55
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Stagiare
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Welwyn wrote:
Summing up of the TDF Top Fives:
1999
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Alex Zülle (‘98 busted for EPO)
3. Fernando Escartín (Systematic team doping exposed in ‘04)
4. Laurent Dufaux (‘98 busted for EPO)
5. Ángel Casero (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
2000
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
4. Christophe Moraue (‘98 busted for EPO)
5. Roberto Heras (‘05 busted for EPO)
2001
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
4. Andrei Kivilev
5. Igor González de Galdeano (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
2002
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Raimondas Rumšas (Suspended in ‘03 for doping)
4. Santiago Botero (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
5. Igor González de Galdeano (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
2003
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Alexander Vinokourov (Suspended in ‘07 for CERA)
4. Tyler Hamilton (Suspended ‘04 for blood doping)
5. Haimar Zubeldia
2004
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Andreas Kloden (Named in doping case in ‘08)
3. Ivan Basso (Suspended in ‘07 for Operacion Puerto ties)
4. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
5. Jose Azevedo (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
2005
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Ivan Basso (Suspended in ‘07 for Operacion Puerto ties)
3. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
4. Fransico Mancebo (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
5. Alexander Vinokourov (Suspended in ‘07 for CERA)
Next thing you know the winner will have to be picked from one of the spectator..  |
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| Smowz |
Posted on 25-08-2012 08:27
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Team Leader
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So Bjarne Riis returned his jersey + Jan Ullrich (like Ivan Basso) has not had any of his titles stripped.
So by my reckoning that brings Ullrich up with the five time winning legends.
Happy days 
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| lokytrew |
Posted on 25-08-2012 08:37
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Domestique
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Ullrich five times would be awesome
Domenico Pozzovivo |
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| Gaffeff |
Posted on 25-08-2012 08:39
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Smowz wrote:
So Bjarne Riis returned his jersey + Jan Ullrich (like Ivan Basso) has not had any of his titles stripped.
So by my reckoning that brings Ullrich up with the five time winning legends.
Happy days
Does that mean that we will be having Ulrich presented with the yellow jerseys (and presumably) a rather large cheque like Andy schleck was? |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 25-08-2012 09:05
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Gaffeff wrote:
Smowz wrote:
So Bjarne Riis returned his jersey + Jan Ullrich (like Ivan Basso) has not had any of his titles stripped.
So by my reckoning that brings Ullrich up with the five time winning legends.
Happy days
Does that mean that we will be having Ulrich presented with the yellow jerseys (and presumably) a rather large cheque like Andy schleck was?
I reckon he'll have a large jersey too.  |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 25-08-2012 09:26
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Tour de France Champion
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Listen, I wasn't around cycling when all that happened at first. And now with all that news and a lot of different opinions and just angry men shouting, I'm a bit confused.
Can someone tell me, a summary, of what the real facts are, without biasing it with an extreme opinion?
Did he ever test positive, did he take tests, fake tests, who testified what?
Thanks in advance!
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 25-08-2012 09:32
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World Champion
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Ian Butler wrote:
Listen, I wasn't around cycling when all that happened at first. And now with all that news and a lot of different opinions and just angry men shouting, I'm a bit confused.
Can someone tell me, a summary, of what the real facts are, without biasing it with an extreme opinion?
Did he ever test positive, did he take tests, fake tests, who testified what?
Thanks in advance!
Well, isso's post sums it all up nicely.
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 25-08-2012 09:43
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Domestique
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Does he get stripped of his results from his comeback too? Then that means Wiggo came 3rd in 2009!!  |
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| Patriotics |
Posted on 25-08-2012 09:43
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Amateur
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Gaffeff wrote:
Smowz wrote:
So Bjarne Riis returned his jersey + Jan Ullrich (like Ivan Basso) has not had any of his titles stripped.
So by my reckoning that brings Ullrich up with the five time winning legends.
Happy days
Does that mean that we will be having Ulrich presented with the yellow jerseys (and presumably) a rather large cheque like Andy schleck was?
I am pretty sure Bjarne Riis didn't actually return his jersey. However the reason why he, Ullrich and other older Tour winners hasn't been stripped of their victories, is becacuse after ten years the Tour can't edit in the official list. They just put a note there saying he can't be seen as the real winner due to doping. So technically i don't think they are able to remove all of Armstrongs victories, unless they take this as a special case. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 17:57
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 25-08-2012 09:46
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I think they can, if it's a continuing offence that takes place, at least partially, within their correction range. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-08-2012 10:10
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Tour de France Champion
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They can because this isn't an isolated case of him doping at this race or that race, a specific point in time.
It's a continuous offence over many years, and what matters is when it ended. It ended within the statute of limitations, so they can still charge him for the entire crime, not just part of it.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| la_triestina |
Posted on 25-08-2012 10:15
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But Ullrich has already admitted to doping. Basso was involved and banned by the Puerto case, so who the hell do they give the victories to now?
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-08-2012 10:34
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Tour de France Champion
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1. They don't have to. They can vacate them. "Nobody won".
2. WHO THE HELL CARES
It does not matter even the tiniest bit. Armstrong won those races, end of. Done. Finito. Seriously, do you honestly care whose name gets written into the record book?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| SweatyViking |
Posted on 25-08-2012 10:37
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Kivilev would be a great and worthy winner.
Edited by SweatyViking on 25-08-2012 10:37
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 25-08-2012 11:08
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Classics Specialist
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Will people still recognice Armstrongs 7 titles as the record or should we give that honour to the group that has 5? (Not that they were much better )
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 25-08-2012 12:39
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Grand Tour Specialist
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la_triestina wrote:
But Ullrich has already admitted to doping. Basso was involved and banned by the Puerto case, so who the hell do they give the victories to now?
Never. He got condemned for it twice, etc. but never admitted it. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-08-2012 12:40
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Tour de France Champion
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Let's call it "oblique non denial"
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 25-08-2012 12:47
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Tour de France Champion
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Nice to see Kivilev and Zubeldia getting TDF wins
i expect the UCI will let him keep the titles for the reason everyone else was doped
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 25-08-2012 12:48
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Grand Tour Specialist
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Nice to see Kivilev and Zubeldia getting TDF wins
i expect the UCI will let him keep the titles for the reason everyone else was doped Bassons, Moncoutié and a bunch of others say "thank you kindly". |
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| rusholme_moz |
Posted on 25-08-2012 13:17
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CLURPR wrote:
Does he get stripped of his results from his comeback too? Then that means Wiggo came 3rd in 2009!!
Hi Guys, great discussion.
I just wanted something clearing up. In [url="https://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/24/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-de-france"]this article[/url] it quotes USADA as saying "Additionally, scientific data showed Mr Armstrong's use of blood manipulation including EPO or blood transfusions during Mr Armstrong's comeback to cycling in the 2009 Tour de France."
I'm aware of all the other evidence, but this was news to me...does anyone have any details about these 2009 tests? |
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