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Ideas for 2012
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:27
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SotD (your 1st post after mine), you were quite happy to max out Madrazo for a competitor, small short term gain for an overall long term loss. Whats to say others wont do the same? Also:
- The Paris Nice/Tirreno/Catalunya 3 race clash caused issues for multiple teams in terms of sending full teams to each - I imagine many would have happily taken on a short term loan there.
- In terms of the Grand Tours, I imagine CT teams may be willing to offer a fee for a rider to be loaned on the short term - although of course this probably would lead to some managers, as per usual with loans, charging excessive amounts, and suckering in some inexperienced manager.
- Its like PT loaning their level 1s to CT. Theres no incentive there for CT teams, as generally the riders arent much use yet, and yet many CT teams took these loans on - PT teams I would have expected to have to pay CT teams for this, yet many deals were free I think, while Im sure there was an example or 2 where the PT manager conned the CT manager into actually paying something - an aspect Ill probably disallow this year when drawing up transfer rules
- If a rider is loaned to you, even in the short team, he still can score you ranking points
Deadpool. Theres plenty in this game for the managers who are results hungry, and see no point in races if they cant win or challenge for the win. It would be more for the managers who simply enjoy the game more, and some added realism - such as me sending a Vesuvio squad of Luxembourgers to the Tour of Luxembourg.
Sotd (your 2nd post). How is it not hypocritical? The first half of that post is complaining about all the things you did for Madrazo. You were quite happy to do it at the time, so you can hardly complain about it now. Dont forget that this season measures were brought in to slow the increases down, but actions such as yours with Madrazo helped these measures be avoided for some riders.
Edited by SportingNonsense on 07-02-2011 13:34
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:34
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Well obviously I haven't made me clear enough.
I am quite sure many people would want Madrazo, Tenorio, Kennaugh, Taaramae and what not in their team for the entire season, but also in a single race, because they could gain points.
But why favour the biggest talents, and neglect the other riders? Who would take Vingerling? Who would take Castroviejo? And why would they? Yes they are free, but you already paid for your own fill-ups. So why not use them instead if they are at a similar level?
I think the max out is very good, but every year we seem to implement a new rule, on how to max out even faster, but why? There are tons and utter tons of great riders. Look at the TdF this year... The pack was crowded with riders capable of winning most other races in the season, and even so Cunego and Valverde wasn't there, just to mention a couple. We don't need 25 super GC riders imo, we certainly don't need 40. Or the races will get overcrowded, and people sticking to their own stars will eventually be superior, as the inflation will get to the FA's who on paper are extraordinary riders, but in relation to what not possible to get they are merely ordinary.
We already have a huge inflation towards the end of the transferperiod, and some managers never seem to get it right, why make it more complicated than it already is, by adding new rules all the time?
I say, if it ain't broken - Don't fix it!
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:40
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I think the max out is very good, but every year we seem to implement a new rule, on how to max out even faster, but why?
Um, what?
Last season we tried to make it slower, to stop the likes of Madrazo maxing out too fast. We've already established what happened next there.
Also
It would take out the element of tactical knowledge, beyond one season away.
Indicates to me that you like the aspect of planning in advance, looking more than 1 season ahead. And yet, those who want to loan the best CT riders to max out, aswell as gain results, are surely doing anything but that - as it just allows another manager to benefit from that rider having better stats..
If anything ProTour managers should be happy to take on the average to okay riders as filler, but wary of taking on the top CT riders because of the future threat they can become. And if you say that you dont want the average to okay riders because you already have your own filler riders, then its simple - dont loan riders.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 20:02
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:48
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And theres an example of your own in Wen Hao Li where you yourself did something you are saying you dont see why managers would do.
At level 2 and 2 xp, your choices for him were obvious - either loan him to CT, or keep him and race him at least 98 race days so he goes up a level. (The latter being similar to what I did with Gastauer)
But, after trying and failing to con a CT team into paying you money to loan him, you then only gave him 45 race days - while instead giving race days to riders such as your example of Vingerling, so they could gain XP levels instead.
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:48
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Obviously I'm not capable of making my voice heard. Probably not strong enough in my english vocabulary... Well no matter what I don't see why I need to get bashed for being hypocritical and what not, every time I make a comment on a new rule or suggestion to a rule. If you have already decided on this, why even bring it up for discussion if you don't want to discuss it in a proper manor anyway.
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:54
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At level 2 and 2 xp, your choices for him were obvious - either loan him to CT, or keep him and race him at least 98 race days so he goes up a level. (The latter being similar to what I did with Gastauer)
But, after trying and failing to con a CT team into paying you money to loan him, you then only gave him 45 race days - while instead giving race days to riders such as your example of Vingerling, so they could gain XP levels instead.
Again. If your main argument is to bash me, then I'm not interested in arguying with you SN. It's just low!
I didn't try to CON anyone, it's a free choice. If someone in the CT could use a decent TT'er for TTT's and a decent leadout-man then they were free to offer for Wen Hao. If they wouldn't pay then I'd rather have him myself. I'm not sure if he is in my plans for next season, as my TTT team is good enough, but who knows.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:56
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SotD wrote:
Obviously I'm not capable of making my voice heard. Probably not strong enough in my english vocabulary... Well no matter what I don't see why I need to get bashed for being hypocritical and what not, every time I make a comment on a new rule or suggestion to a rule. If you have already decided on this, why even bring it up for discussion if you don't want to discuss it in a proper manor anyway.
Well, firstly. I didnt bring it up 
And it seems to me that you say you want a discussion, but you dont like it when I question your posts? Seems like maybe you dont want a discussion afterall.
The point in a debate is to weed out the flaws in an idea/argument to try and get an ideal solution. So I dont see anything wrong with using examples of what you yourself have done, in response to your argument that no manager would want to do it.
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:00
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And it seems to me that you say you want a discussion, but you dont like it when I question your posts? Seems like maybe you dont want a discussion afterall.
Not true. I'm very interested in discussing this fact, but I don't see why you need to bring up that I'm being hypocritical or that my intentions is to cheat everyone around me. You should really be able to discuss this at another level. You sure have the brains to do so, so why is it necessary for you to make me feel bad instead of discussing the substance?
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| PremierRus91 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:01
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I want good internet gaming server (not bug gamecentre ) |
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:04
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We're talking about the man-game here... |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:08
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Another idea on the short term loans is for the cobbled races, I'm sure many a pro tour team would pay good money to get Vanspeybrouck or the like to race in the big classics, without having to buy a cobbled specialist themselves
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:11
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Another idea on the short term loans is for the cobbled races, I'm sure many a pro tour team would pay good money to get Vanspeybrouck or the like to race in the big classics, without having to buy a cobbled specialist themselves
Yeah but since Vanspeybrouck is already maxed out, I don't see the CT team letting him go and waste his race days and gain nothing in return, even though they could get an important amount of cash.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:16
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The question would be, would the short term loans include maxed out riders or not.
If the money on offer is large enough, some could be tempted to allow one of their top riders to be short term loaned for a classic or 2 - while those offering the money may feel it a worthwhile investment if it brings a strong likelihood of success - be it ranking points, or achieving a goal - and with there not being a huge amount of uses for money in the game (and its hard to really think of anywhere where more uses could be added) this is a possible area where the feature could be maniupulated.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:30
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Also, will a rider be loaned out to only one team in the other division? (if he's competing in more than one race)
I think it should be that way, since it would be strange to see a rider riding for two different teams in the same division during one season.
And I remember this happening in real life as well. Didn't Rujano sign a contract with Quick Step a few years ago to ride the TDF?
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:41
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They shouldnt be able to be loaned out to more than one team, but it does beg the question, could they also later appear in the PT if their CT team gets a Wildcard.
With Rujano, it was more that Selle Italia owned him up until the Giro, and then Quick Step became his team for the rest of the season, and he rode in the Tour. Ironically finishing neither GT!
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:45
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Hmm wouldn't it benefit the managers with the best contacts rather than the best tactical ones? I mean, some teams might look into having a sublime hilly team, because they know then can just loan a superior cobbled riders, and a GT rider from their friend in the CT, while perhaps loaning an amazing hilly rider the other way for the races needed. I can see way more danger than positive in this. Also considering the fact that we have tried to make the game as equal as possible, so the tactic and luck part will play a bigger effect, than having a couple of sublime riders... I believe this will tare down a key of the management game, as it will favour the internal friendships. Not that it is a bad thing, but it will be very difficult to come into the game if the existing managers already have 4-5 allied.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:52
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A problem solved by only allowing the loaning of non-maxed riders, simply as an alternative to a full-season loan - either for riders who are close to a level gain and require ProTour racing for that, or for teams who would rather go for promotion and accept a slightly slower rate of increase for their riders concerned.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:54
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I think the riders should appear in PT even if the team gets an wildcard (to another PT race, I guess) because the 2 teams aren't actually fighting against each other.
SotD, I think you're right and it could favor the managers with friends in the other division, but in the end it won't really be that much of a difference.
If someone wants to get some money by loaning their stage to a PT race, I'm sure they would go with the team that offers the the most.
Also, the big stage racers are unlikely to be loaned out for a GT from CT to PT. For example I wouldn't see Kami letting Ricco riding the Giro an waste 21 of his already few race days even for an enormous amount of money.
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:55
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Agreed, it was merely a comment on the "Vanspeybrouck"-issue 
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 14:58
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SotD, I think you're right and it could favor the managers with friends in the other division, but in the end it won't really be that much of a difference.
If someone wants to get some money by loaning their stage to a PT race, I'm sure they would go with the team that offers the the most.
Well we have seen some very interesting transfers before, where one might think it was due to a friendship or similar - so I could see that happening again with this.
And to the "won't make a difference"-aspect... Look at how close the competition are this year. If vanspeybrouck would've gotten you 3-400pts from 2-3 races where would you have been?
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