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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:25
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Rzrassman wrote:
I really dont know much about TT but guys I thought TT was about a high resistence level(Ability to ride at a quick pace for a certain amount of time).
Can one explain how position influences TT?(barring the basic TT position)
0,9 x P = (rau / 2) . S.Cx x V^3
0,9 P (in Watts) : the power to beat wind resistance (the 10 other percent are used to beat various mechanical resistance)
rau (in kg/m^3) : air density, it goes down when air heats up, but it's around 1,2 or 1,19, generally
S.Cx : S (in m²) is the surface exposer to the wind, Cx (no unit) is the ratio between the frontal surface and the actual surface, it qualifies and quantifies aerodynamics. S.Cx is the frontal surface of the bike + cyclist. One quarter to one third of the frontal surface is caused by the bike alone
V (in m/s) is the speed of the rider, relative to the speed of the wind
A TT position reduces the S.Cx by about 20 % compared to a normal bike position with hands down the bars.
TT is about producing the most power, and the most constant power, over the predicted length of the effort. It's a threshold effort (when it's longer than a dozen of minutes). Back in the days, all efforts above threshold were indeed named "resistance", but it's gotten more detailed now.
edit here : this means that riders generally have to produce 80 to 90 % of their maximal aerobic power. The best combination of strength and RPM to achieve that generally involves a high number of RPM (frequency of the pedalling movement).
Hope this helps. 
Edited by Aquarius on 10-07-2013 17:27
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| IncredibleIan |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:27
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Hahaha no I just find it funny that people actually have a dedicated thread to make excuses as to why Froome is doing so well.
Im a Cavendish fan but just hate it when anyone says that any cyclist is doping. Doping does not occur now except in continental teams like vini fantini. Cycling is far cleaner now than ever before. |
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| FroomeDog99 |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:27
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Also, explain his rise from decent domestique to GT winner overnight when Leinders joined Sky.
Edited by FroomeDog99 on 10-07-2013 17:28
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:29
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IncredibleIan wrote:
Hahaha no I just find it funny that people actually have a dedicated thread to make excuses as to why Froome is doing so well.
Im a Cavendish fan but just hate it when anyone says that any cyclist is doping. Doping does not occur now except in continental teams like vini fantini. Cycling is far cleaner now than ever before.
Thank God (or whoever), you've called yourself "incredible" (as in "non credible"). Thanks for being here with that absolute truth.
All opinions are welcome, but arguments are even more welcome.
edit : saw them on the previous page...
Genetic advantage ? Never showed before he joined Sky. Born from British parents. Effects of staying in altitude, even for long ? That last 3 weeks...
He trained harder than every one ? I'm yet to see evidence and not only his propaganda. Also, a couple of years back, Dr Ferrari trained his patients so hard (besides doping them), that doping wasn't only meant to improve performance, but also to survive training. I'm very careful when some riders dare claiming they train harder.
Edited by Aquarius on 10-07-2013 17:33
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| CountArach |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:30
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IncredibleIan wrote:
Hahaha no I just find it funny that people actually have a dedicated thread to make excuses as to why Froome is doing so well.
Im a Cavendish fan but just hate it when anyone says that any cyclist is doping. Doping does not occur now except in continental teams like vini fantini. Cycling is far cleaner now than ever before.
I remember when I was this naive. Must be nice.
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| IncredibleIan |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:33
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It was 3000ft sorry.
Secondly that is a crap arguement!!
You are an idiot! Look at an article on Chris Froome and what illness he had and how when he managed to get rid of the illness he began to improve. He was 2nd in the Vuelta also.
Leinders does have a history of doping.
But that doesnt mean that he has doped Froome or any of Sky.
He was probably forced to change his way.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:33
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Aquarius wrote:
IncredibleIan wrote:
Hahaha no I just find it funny that people actually have a dedicated thread to make excuses as to why Froome is doing so well.
Im a Cavendish fan but just hate it when anyone says that any cyclist is doping. Doping does not occur now except in continental teams like vini fantini. Cycling is far cleaner now than ever before.
Thank God (or whoever), you've called yourself "incredible" (as in "non credible"  . Thanks for being here with that absolute truth.
All opinions are welcome, but arguments are even more welcome.
I'm not saying I agree with him, doping is likely with Froomebot, but I hate to burn people before anything is proven, so come with hard evidence and then burn him. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 15:49
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:34
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IncredibleIan wrote:
Just because he is going faster than ever before does not mean that Froome or any of Sky are doping.
Usain Bolt set a new world record when people before him took drugs. Does that mean that he must have taken drugs??
The drug that Armstrong mainly used was EPO which stimulates the production of red blood cells. Froome was born and lived at 6000ft in Africa so genetically he will naturally have more red blood cells than Contador or Armstrong. Also the oxygen dissociation curve for Froome will be shifted to the left favouring the loading of oxygen meaning Froome can exercise aerobically for longer and harder than Contador and Armstrong.
No matter how many high altitude training camps Contador or Armstrong would do they would struggle to shift their dissociation curves to the left as they and their families were not born and did not live at an altitude of above 3000ft.
Please stop wasting your time saying that he MUST have doped when you dont even know how hard he has trained.
I would take this all back if he was doping but I know that he isnt so:
GET A LIFE AND STOP MAKING EXCUSES AS TO WHY HE IS SO GOOD!!
There is a huuuuuuuge difference in Bolt who goes 100meters and then stops.
Why do you think we have riders who are specialist in their field, like Tony Martin, Cavendish, Cancellera, Sagan and so on.
Froome is doing great in all areas and its not just one race, so far he has been this good since the racing season began, and not even in Pro Cycling Manger is that possible without cheating. |
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:35
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Domestique
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IncredibleIan wrote:
Just because he is going faster than ever before does not mean that Froome or any of Sky are doping.
Usain Bolt set a new world record when people before him took drugs. Does that mean that he must have taken drugs??
The drug that Armstrong mainly used was EPO which stimulates the production of red blood cells. Froome was born and lived at 6000ft in Africa so genetically he will naturally have more red blood cells than Contador or Armstrong. Also the oxygen dissociation curve for Froome will be shifted to the left favouring the loading of oxygen meaning Froome can exercise aerobically for longer and harder than Contador and Armstrong.
No matter how many high altitude training camps Contador or Armstrong would do they would struggle to shift their dissociation curves to the left as they and their families were not born and did not live at an altitude of above 3000ft.
Please stop wasting your time saying that he MUST have doped when you dont even know how hard he has trained.
I would take this all back if he was doping but I know that he isnt so:
GET A LIFE AND STOP MAKING EXCUSES AS TO WHY HE IS SO GOOD!!
Kid, your are entitled to your opinions. But i dont know if you are trolling a bit ?
Usain Bolt is the one most accused of doping in the world of running and athletics. There is a reason that Jamaica is the one nation with lowest doping controllance, which is on purpose. Critique from everywhere have been thrown against them. That is also one of the explaination why all of a sudden Jamaica also have 3-4 of the worlds fastest FEMALE track runners. Females who suspiciously enough all look very masculin, who suspiciously have a extreme high level of testosteron. They are injected with a lot perfomance enhancing drugs - anabolic steroids, growth hormones etc. This is happening almost "legal" since they anti doping agency is not doing their job in Jamaica, on purpose. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:35
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IncredibleIan wrote:
He was probably forced to change his way.
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| XxMillad24Xx |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:36
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Stagiare
Posts: 235
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IncredibleIan wrote:
It was 3000ft sorry.
Secondly that is a crap arguement!!
You are an idiot! Look at an article on Chris Froome and what illness he had and how when he managed to get rid of the illness he began to improve. He was 2nd in the Vuelta also.
Leinders does have a history of doping.
But that doesnt mean that he has doped Froome or any of Sky.
He was probably forced to change his way.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This is just great. Thank you sir for entertaining me today.
"Cycling is now the the world's cleanest sport." - Chris Froome
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:38
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Domestique
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Aquarius i wrote this enquiry for you in the wrong thread. Gonna c/p
"Aquarius can we get some delightfull watt/kg comparisons between Froome vs Martin, and Froome vs Contador and Valverde. We agree on that Froomes perfomance today is way more impressive and suspicious due to the difference in weight between Froome and Martin ? (thinking of watt/kg ratio) Performance really reminds me of Armstrong again in his prime" |
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| Stairs |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:38
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Okay, so, let's have some ranking fun!
List the most riduculous rides and riders within the last 10 years. There's been quite a few! From the top of my head:
1. Emanuelle Sella in the Giro 2008
Probably the most ridiculous ride ever to occur post-90's. I actually defended him after his first and second stage win but when he was then 2nd on Plan de Corones, it was just ludicrous - and when he even won the final mountain stage, all there was to do was just to take a bow and applause the show.
2. Chris Froome 2011-2013
We all know the story of Froome and those of us who followed him back in his U23-days will agree to the ridiculousness. The worst thing about him is that we - the spectators - have become so much smarter since the mid 00's. We know how to recognize a doper by now.
3. Santi' Perez in the Vuelta 2004
Perez had quite a few good results in his first professional seasons but absolutely no-one would have betted on the absolute ridiculousness of his riding against Roberto Heras in the 2004 Vuelta. It was fun watching and really a great race when I was still all too naive to suspect anything.
4. The CERA-gang of Saunier Duval, Schumacher and Kohl in the 2008 Tour
We were smarter by then and we could all smell doping from far away. Only Kohl were we ready to give some benefit of the doubt, at least to some extent. But no.
5. Lance Armstrong, all the way to 2009
Yes, and 2009 TdF was just the icing on the cake
6. Haussler in 2009
This is more controversial, I am very aware of that - but seriously, what an explosion of power he was in the first half of 2009. Suddenly a super classics sprinter, super cobbler and so much else. The thing was, it almost looked like he was surprised at his own strength. Had he been better aware of it, he would have won a few classics that spring. Instead, he faded back to somewhat mediocrity but has had a very fine season this year.
7. Isidro Nozal 2003 (and 2004 to some extent)
Boom! There he was! Boom! Gone forever.
8. Michael Rasmussen, Tour de France 2007
It was a wonderful summer being Danish but by the time he caught up with and overhauled Valverde on the ITT, well, it was just too obvious.
9. Hincapie on Pla-d'Adet
Not much to say. Bumblebee learns to fly.
10. Ivan Basso, Giro d'Italia 2006
I remember sitting watching the ridiculousness, first in awe but by the time of Simoni's ET-comments, I was very much in doubt. It was just too much.
11. JEG Cataluña, Giro 2006
Same as Hincapie. Come on.
12. Landis...
Yeah, it needs to be here somewhere. I don't actually think he was that suspicious in comparison to the rest of the 75 kg-guys climbing the fastest in the world back in 2006. Back then, it was all meh, today it was just a bunch of ridiculousness.
13. Di Luca - a whole career, especially Giro 2009
The Giro 2009 probably is the landmark of riduculousness of his career. He was an attacking-monster but a joy to watch. 2009 was a great Giro, much thanks to him.
14. Pecharroman
I don't actually remember seeing this guy in action - I just started following cycling later that summer of 2003 - but he's become somewhat of an urban legend of the unlikely fluke.
15. Joaquim Rodriguez - constant top shape from late 2009 to the end of 2012.
I don't get it. He even became one the absolute best climbers on all mountain-type stages and a decent TT'er along the way - how did he find the time when he's been riding all over Europe winning races and podium'ed from March to October every year?
There are many more that would deserve a spot. Mosquera, Porte, Sky, the High-Road/Columbia team of 2008/2009, Zabriskie, Julich, Vinokourov/Kashechkin, US Postal and so on.
The ranking ended up a bit arbitrary so don't put too much weight on it.
Never.
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| FroomeDog99 |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:38
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Posts: 4573
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IncredibleIan wrote:
It was 3000ft sorry.
Secondly that is a crap arguement!!
You are an idiot! Look at an article on Chris Froome and what illness he had and how when he managed to get rid of the illness he began to improve. He was 2nd in the Vuelta also.
Leinders does have a history of doping.
But that doesnt mean that he has doped Froome or any of Sky.
He was probably forced to change his way.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'm crying with laughter ... |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:38
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Posts: 5220
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IncredibleIan wrote:
It was 3000ft sorry.
Secondly that is a crap arguement!!
You are an idiot! Look at an article on Chris Froome and what illness he had and how when he managed to get rid of the illness he began to improve. He was 2nd in the Vuelta also.
Leinders does have a history of doping.
But that doesnt mean that he has doped Froome or any of Sky.
He was probably forced to change his way.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
If besides taking propaganda for granted you could come up with serious studies about the effect of his disease on performance, that'd be welcome.
Also, could you check how long it takes to heal ?
Why was Leinders of all doctors hired by Sky, if not for some extra-skill ?
3 000 feet ? That's like 910m. Wow, it's really hard to breath up there. There's like 20 % of the French population living at least that high, but they're still to produce huge talents like Froome... |
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| IncredibleIan |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:40
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to go up a mountain you need to push the pedals around and be light.
to time trial you need to be able to push the pedals around and be aerodynamic.
Tony Martin is in pain at the moment after his crash on stage 1.
He had all his bandages taken off and fresh ones put on today because he was in pain.
There are similarities between climbing and time trialling.
Sprinting is different and is more about peak power output and Froome is rubbish at it.
Also Froome had never been in a wind tunnel until April this year when he went to the University of Southampton. Aerodynamics are very important in time trials as well as power and he has improved in that department.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:41
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Ybodonk wrote:
Aquarius i wrote this enquiry for you in the wrong thread. Gonna c/p
"Aquarius can we get some delightfull watt/kg comparisons between Froome vs Martin, and Froome vs Contador and Valverde. We agree on that Froomes perfomance today is way more impressive and suspicious due to the difference in weight between Froome and Martin ? (thinking of watt/kg ratio) Performance really reminds me of Armstrong again in his prime"
Yes, but later today, must go ride my bike now, and read the rest of the forum.
The simple conclusion is that Froome was totally astonishing there, or that Martin was very poor (which is unlikely because he totally crushed the rest of the field, in expected proportions). |
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| FroomeDog99 |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:42
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Tony Martin is in pain at the moment after his crash on stage 1.
He had all his bandages taken off and fresh ones put on today because he was in pain.
Yet he obliterated the rest of the field, almost beating the Av. Speed record set by Lemond in 1989. |
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| masch20 |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:42
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Under 23
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just keep hating on froome and sky guys.... you simply cannot accept that froome is just very good!
i am more convinced that Ten Dam and Mollema is doped.
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| XxMillad24Xx |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:43
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Stagiare
Posts: 235
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IncredibleIan wrote:
to go up a mountain you need to push the pedals around and be light.
to time trial you need to be able to push the pedals around and be aerodynamic.
Tony Martin is in pain at the moment after his crash on stage 1.
He had all his bandages taken off and fresh ones put on today because he was in pain.
There are similarities between climbing and time trialling.
Sprinting is different and is more about peak power output and Froome is rubbish at it.
Also Froome had never been in a wind tunnel until April this year when he went to the University of Southampton. Aerodynamics are very important in time trials as well as power and he has improved in that department.
STAHP! JUST STAHP! It's too much, I'm crying
"Cycling is now the the world's cleanest sport." - Chris Froome
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