Considering you changed topic and you started talking about religion, I think I am free to express my opinion on this again, because I said I won't respond on messages about Isreal vs Palestine war, not some Wester and Israeli spy. What a piece of shit that video is! You're pathetic for not having any arguments left, but bringing religion in this. It's absolutely talking untrue things and lies he calls facts and things that he pretends are from Qur'an and they're not true.
Do you know who that guy is?
Did you ever read that surat or Qur'an part yourself so you can confirm it? I did. Read it FULLY, not just part of it you like.
How can you post a video of guy who lies about what really happened in Banu Qurayza? https://en.wikiped...nu_Qurayza
How can you post a video of a guy who worked as Israeli's spy for more than 10 years?
How can you post a video of guy who's converted to Christian and now talks about Islam because of Western influence (read below)?
And now, I'll just quote few things about that guy above, just to prove your "facts" and the fact that he's "muslim" (he's a christian) and from "palestine" (born there, he's an Western Israeli):
Mosab Hassan Yousef (born 1978) is a Palestinian and son of a Hamas founder and leader Sheikh Hassan Yousef. From 1997 to 2007, he worked undercover for Israel's internal security service Shin Bet, which considered him its most valuable source within the Hamas leadership.
According to Israeli sources, the information Yousef supplied prevented dozens of suicide attacks and assassinations of Israelis, exposed numerous Hamas cells, and assisted Israel in hunting down many militants, including his own father. In March 2010, he published his autobiography titled Son of Hamas.
Yousef has since converted to Christianity and moved to California. His request for political asylum in the United States was granted pending a routine background check on June 30, 2010.
Now his biography & espionage career, which are really interesting to see how big liar this guy is "no matter which side you support".
Biography
Mosab Hassan Yousef (later Joseph) was born in Ramallah, a city 10 kilometers (6.2 mi) north of Jerusalem. His father, Sheikh Hassan Yousef, was a Hamas founder and leader who spent many years in Israeli prisons. He is the oldest of five brothers and three sisters.
According to Yousef, when he was growing up he wanted to be a fighter because that was expected of Arab children in the West Bank. Yousef was first arrested when he was ten, during the First Intifada, for throwing rocks at Israeli settlers. He was further arrested and jailed by the Israelis numerous times. As his father's eldest son, he was seen as his heir apparent and became an important part of the Hamas organization. Yousef claims that his doubts about Islam and Hamas began forming when he realized Hamas' brutality, and that he hated how Hamas used the lives of suffering civilians and children to achieve their goals. Yousef was held by Shin Bet agents in 1996. He claims that while in prison, he was shocked by Shin Bet's interrogation methods which he considered humane, when compared to how Hamas operatives tortured imprisoned suspected collaborators. He decided to accept a Shin Bet approach to become an informant.
Espionage career
Since his release from prison in 1997, Yousef was considered the Shin Bet's most reliable source in the Hamas leadership, earning himself the nickname the "Green Prince" – using the color of the Islamist group's flag, and "prince" because of his pedigree as the son of one of the movement's founders. The intelligence he supplied Israel led to the exposure of a number of Hamas cells as well as the prevention of dozens of suicide bombings and assassination attempts on Israeli figures. He has claimed that he did not inform for money but rather that his motivations were ideological and religious, and that he only wanted to save lives. In order to thwart any suspicions of collaboration, the Shin Bet staged an arrest attempt, telling the Israel Defense Forces to launch an operation to arrest him, and then provided him intelligence allowing him to escape at the last minute, after which he went into hiding for the rest of his career.
Yousef says he supplied intelligence only on the condition that the "targets" would not be killed, but arrested. This led to the detention of several key Palestinian leaders, including Ibrahim Hamid, a Hamas commander in the West Bank, and Marwan Barghouti. Also, Yousef claims to have thwarted a 2001 plot to assassinate Shimon Peres, then foreign minister and now President of Israel. "Many people owe him their lives and don't even know it", says his former Shin Bet officer.
I just watched like 10 of his videos and about 50 minutes of this he's speaking. This guy is great. He firstly tells, in the same interview, that he became an Israeli spy because they kidnapped him and only few minutes after, he starts talking about realizing how Islam is shitty religion. Where's logic? He then talks about how Islam is a good religion, but God of Islam is a killer and lier? Where's the logic? He then talks about how good "his people", Muslims are and then he says that Muslims are generally people with low moral, intelligence and killers. Where's the logic? He then talks about the fact that, when he was in Israeli's prison, he thought about it and realized both sides are killing. Then, all of a sudden, he chose to convert his sides and religion. Where's the logic?
Why don't you answer now all of those previous messages, but you change topic? Why, for Gods sake, if Israel is innocent are they killing people? Why are you the one who are always the first ones talking about how Islamic people hate you, while you're the ones that do that? How come you, that guy above and people similar to you find always those things in Qur'an, yet never find those things in Jews/Christian books (whatever you are)? Why do you think he converted from Islam to other religion? Money.
Yet again, he's free to express his opinions and I am absolutely okay that he converted to Christianity. But I find it funny that you found a Spy as an example, that converted his sides and religion because of a fear few morons with guns set to him, not because he felt like that.
You can't be a good person when you're working as Spy, against a father that made you and against your people and doing against them, so they can get killed. How can you consider that type of person, type of person that should learn us something?
Don't you find it interesting that he's now working for biggest American companies and is getting alot of money. I am pretty sure he didn't get all of that money because of "NY Times best-seller, Son of Hamas".
And then, there's Western media and all these TV news calling him to talk with him, how brave he is and to show people the real example of traitor. It's okay to change the religion, it's not okay to change the religion and to insult it everyday, to work as a spy because you're a pussy that's afraid to show what you are. I even saw title "Converting from teror to Freedom"...What the fuck...
Then again, it's a war and it's a world, so I can understand these type of people are there, existing and living normally.
Edited by admirschleck on 20-07-2014 19:10
...while on another side, we have more than 410 Palestinian people dead. Could you please stop posting here, as you clearly, already said that you're not informed enough, so these messages are hurting me, really. Also, please look at the situation objectively, not with bias towards one side, pointing out an untrue information (actually, "only" 7 Israelis are killed) and pointing out informations only about one side. It's a war. You need two sides and armies for war. Two different people. And two different amounts of killed people.
Tens of thousands, if not even more European people, especially on streets of Wien and bigger cities like that are protesting against these massacre and genocide, that I can compare to even something Hitler did in past now, is a good thing to see. Faith in humanity restored.
Edited by admirschleck on 20-07-2014 23:58
Trying to justify a mess like this is quite pointless. Any side can back up an action by re-tracing to an earlier action. Then you just have a religious debate.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
...while on another side, we have more than 410 Palestinian people dead. Could you please stop posting here, as you clearly, already said that you're not informed enough, so these messages are hurting me, really. Also, please look at the situation objectively, not with bias towards one side, pointing out an untrue information (actually, "only" 7 Israelis are killed) and pointing out informations only about one side. It's a war. You need two sides and armies for war. Two different people. And two different amounts of killed people.
Tens of thousands, if not even more European people, especially on streets of Wien and bigger cities like that are protesting against these massacre and genocide, that I can compare to even something Hitler did in past now, is a good thing to see. Faith in humanity restored.
When did I say anything biased. I heard on the Australian news - which is obviously unbiased - that 17 Israelis were killed. I was simply stating a fact, so I do not understand where your hostility comes from. I was not giving any opinion, nor implying anything. Just stating a figure.
When you say something like that, it sounds like "17 Israelis dead - 0 Palestinians dead". I don't see the reason for posting something like that. At least, when you're noting useless facts like that (everyone here is informed enough about what's happening, literally every media source is bringing that up 24/7), use both sides and numbers to really show the right "ratio" and situation.
I swear I am more angry at myself for entering this discussion, more that I am actually angry about bunch of untrue things here. I wasted big amount of time to write 2-3 reaaally long posts and now, after I said what I had (more or less) and proved I am (maybe) right, what did I do? Just spent my free time to try covincing someone on another side of planet and even though I am (maybe, once again) right, that persons opinions won't change, because it's just not right to be against what your country (or a side you do support, or w/e) and your people thinks. For fucks sake, Admir... Edited by admirschleck on 21-07-2014 04:26
acac wrote:
well this is going nowhere so i will leave you with this:
you made an uncalled for comment. i asked you to keep this on a decent level and cactus-jack later did the same. you responded with a sarcastic comment to both of us while once again insulting me. i decided to end this here and inform SN about this leaving him and DW48 to decide what to do.
LOL. It seems that crying for sorrow is deeply installed in Israeli hearts. Here, SN or DW will play the role of your big brother, USA?
We know that 6 million jews were killed in what was the darkest moments for mankind, but that should not mean that Israel will have the right to do what they want with their big oversea eagle babysitter...
zachbastian wrote:
I can´t fell sorry for the palestinian. As long as they choose to fight their war with bombs around their waist, walking into a schoolbus and blowing them self and a lot children up. Put on a UNIFORM, and show your colours. I hope that Israel will finished this once and for all. SORRY
Because bombing innocent civilians is ok as long as your Israeli? Evicting people from their homes and invading their territory is fine as long as you wear a uniform? Yes, there are some unsavoury actions by the Palestineans. But the actions of Israel are far worse and a lot harder to defend.
those innocent civilians are being used by hamas as human shields. there is no argument that the avrage gazan is a victim, but hamas is the criminal.
So what? They use human shields and only answer to this is kill the shield and then kill whoever is hiding behind him?
admirschleck wrote:
When you say something like that, it sounds like "17 Israelis dead - 0 Palestinians dead". I don't see the reason for posting something like that. At least, when you're noting useless facts like that (everyone here is informed enough about what's happening, literally every media source is bringing that up 24/7), use both sides and numbers to really show the right "ratio" and situation.
I swear I am more angry at myself for entering this discussion, more that I am actually angry about bunch of untrue things here. I wasted big amount of time to write 2-3 reaaally long posts and now, after I said what I had (more or less) and proved I am (maybe) right, what did I do? Just spent my free time to try covincing someone on another side of planet and even though I am (maybe, once again) right, that persons opinions won't change, because it's just not right to be against what your country (or a side you do support, or w/e) and your people thinks. For fucks sake, Admir...
Admir, I tend to agree with you on this one. It is possible it was the news which Cycleman read/watched that displayed information like this, maybe not through intentional biased, but through the fact that their contacts would normally be Israelis, of whom naturally not all will want to hear the whole story. I think it has been interesting to hear your side pf the debate, you might not have turned me around, maybe because i was always slightly on the Palestinian side, (I just felt some of the things said were perhaps without thinking).
I think that generally it is impossible to convince anyone who is firmly planted on one side of the camp, such as the main protagonists in the debate. The way a debate is won is when you convince those who were on the fence, maybe leaning towards one side, into joining in. I think this can only happen if this is a more organised debate, as at the moment it is an insult match, where both sides use the same arguments with equal validity.
acac wrote:
well this is going nowhere so i will leave you with this:
you made an uncalled for comment. i asked you to keep this on a decent level and cactus-jack later did the same. you responded with a sarcastic comment to both of us while once again insulting me. i decided to end this here and inform SN about this leaving him and DW48 to decide what to do.
LOL. It seems that crying for sorrow is deeply installed in Israeli hearts. Here, SN or DW will play the role of your big brother, USA?
We know that 6 million jews were killed in what was the darkest moments for mankind, but that should not mean that Israel will have the right to do what they want with their big oversea eagle babysitter...
admir has decided to bring this down to personal insults. instead of doing the same i reported it to the admins. its not called crying for sorrow its called acting like an adult.
So what? They use human shields and only answer to this is kill the shield and then kill whoever is hiding behind him?
so if hamas is using human shields and tries to kill us we should just let them?
acac wrote:
admir has decided to bring this down to personal insults. instead of doing the same i reported it to the admins. its not called crying for sorrow its called acting like an adult.
Acting like an adult would be ignoring personal insults, not implying that you will tell to the mods.
acac wrote:
So what? They use human shields and only answer to this is kill the shield and then kill whoever is hiding behind him?
so if hamas is using human shields and tries to kill us we should just let them?
Give them what is rightfuly theirs and they will stop trying to kill you hopefully.
Well my news source was saying that Palestine had captured a town, and thy hey said 17 Israelis died in it. That was what the story was about, so no real need to mention Palestine. Just out of curiosity, were the Israelis soldiers or civilians?
@avin- the UN gave it to us, the way I see it it's rightfully ours.
@cycleman123- I don't know exactly what you read but what happens yesterday was that the IDF was in a battle against Hamas in a neighborhood. During the fight 13 soldiers from the golani brigade died but the IDF has control over it now.
I just noticed that admir told me to pick a side. Now I'm not sure if that meant a side in general or his side because he has to be right and that is the only side to pick, but isn't picking a side what we don't want.
Obviously it's virtually impossible for acac because he is actually Israeli, but I feel that if you don't pick a side it allows you to have a much more civilised discussion, because you are less trying to make a point, and you can display facts in an un-biased way and discuss your opinions on each event individually. I'm not trying to big myself up or anything, I'm just saying that this allows me to actually take in all the points being raised. You'll notice I never displayed an affinity towards Israel or Palestine.
Also, I do very much agree with what admir says in his signature. Resistance has become a duty for Palestine, and there's no way for them to get out of this war even if they want to. However, while what Israel did initially was wrong, they can't very well back out now and give Palestine what they had in the first place, because Hamas will not take it and instead go on a revenge mission - in my opinion. To me this is a war which needs to be solved in a peaceful sitdown where both parties agree to stop, because really this war has been of no benefit to anyone. I think the UN imposed ceasefire is a big step in the right direction.
I wish there would be the right guys answering here, people who are old enough.
For example you will never have a clinical clean war just getting the "bad guys".
Especially if there are air strikes, even with the newest technologies you will always hit civilians just look at all the wars like WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan Wars, Iraq Wars, Syria, Ukraine no matter if any side says stay on the roofs so there are more deaths.
Edited by Rin on 21-07-2014 13:18
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It's not just buildings, ambulances are targeted from artillery as well. It's ridiculous.
The worst is... people have nowhere to run to in Gaza, UN camps are full. It's a slaughter, plain and simple.
You are aware that Hamas' HQ is located a the basement of al shifa hospital?
Also, had we wanted to slaughter Palestinians then making a field hospital near gaza is a bit counter productive isn't it?
Cycleman123 wrote:
I just noticed that admir told me to pick a side. Now I'm not sure if that meant a side in general or his side because he has to be right and that is the only side to pick, but isn't picking a side what we don't want.
That's a lie. Go read my message above once again. I just asked you to be objective and talk about both sides, not to only bring info about one side , which maybe is only reported in your Local TV news, but still it's not a way to go. Reason - read previous message.
acac wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
acac wrote:
well this is going nowhere so i will leave you with this:
you made an uncalled for comment. i asked you to keep this on a decent level and cactus-jack later did the same. you responded with a sarcastic comment to both of us while once again insulting me. i decided to end this here and inform SN about this leaving him and DW48 to decide what to do.
LOL. It seems that crying for sorrow is deeply installed in Israeli hearts. Here, SN or DW will play the role of your big brother, USA?
admir has decided to bring this down to personal insults. instead of doing the same i reported it to the admins. its not called crying for sorrow its called acting like an adult.
Hahahaha, that's so adult!
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Give them what is rightfuly theirs and they will stop trying to kill you hopefully.
That's it. I think nothing more has to be added to this conversation. Whole walls of text, pages of this discussion are in that sentence. Well said, Avin.
