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Other Races 2009
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| ember |
Posted on 25-08-2009 18:53
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schleck93 wrote:
He is 12th on CQ ranking for 2009 so yeah he is one of the best, don't use UCI ranking as evidence though, CQ ranking is much better.
Is that with his overall win and stage win in Eneco? |
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| schleck93 |
Posted on 25-08-2009 19:04
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Yes thoose are included
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| ember |
Posted on 25-08-2009 19:15
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Ok, congrats to him and his great results I'm looking forward for what he is going to aim for next season... |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 25-08-2009 19:21
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issoisso wrote:
He's had a fantstic season. What gets on my nerves are the two most common types of Hagen fans.
Type 1: "Hagen is going to win the Tour one day. He can do it if he wants to." Ignores all logic.
And worse, type 2. The guys who see that type1 are insane people, and thus think "but I'm not like that", when they really are like that to a smaller scale. These are the guys who will say that despite no young prospect rider ever being a certainty, Hagen is a sure-fire thing and will be awesome. Who the hell knows.
These are the guys who say hagen will win Amstels and Lieges and etc for years to come. These are the guys who think Hagen can one day win cobbles, sprints, time trials and mountain stages, but think they're entirely realistic because they don't think Hagen will be Merckx.
The fans are immensely annoying and frustrating. Not Hagen. Hagen is a down to earth guy who doesn't annoy anyone.
Isso, I'd just point out that the second type is almost justified. With the results he's put forth already he doesn't have that far to go to make those in the second category look to be pretty close to accurate.
He's got a pro-tour stage race win, several sprint wins, wins in the Giro and a win in Gent - Wevelgem. That puts him in the vicinity of competing for some of the bigger 1-day races.
I think many of the predictions for Boasson Hagen now are no further off then the people predicting great things from Cavendish back in 2007. If anything, Edvald's 2009 is better then Cav's 2007... and while Edvald still needs to improve to compete in some races it's not like he's got an extremely long way to go.
I'd say when people talk about Taylor Phinney that way (or talked about Edvald that way 2 years ago)... that's when to get annoyed. |
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| chrica04 |
Posted on 25-08-2009 19:26
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I still think Phinney will be good, but the crash he just had doesn't help at all. I don't think I will compare him to EBH but he has a great chance.
Another guy in the US coming up right now is Alex Howes! |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 25-08-2009 19:30
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And before Isso crushes me...
I don't see him dominating any of those races. But I do think he's rapidly becoming a Paolo Bettini type rider (with a better TT, but maybe a shade less climbing).
I wouldn't be shocked if when he's done we're looking at a similar resume... with wins at races like Milano-San Remo, Lombardia, San Sebastian and maybe even a world championship or Liege. |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 25-08-2009 19:32
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chrica04 wrote:
I still think Phinney will be good, but the crash he just had doesn't help at all. I don't think I will compare him to EBH but he has a great chance.
Another guy in the US coming up right now is Alex Howes!
I don't think Phinney will do jack until he gives up the track.
And from the sound of it, he won't do that until 2012 at the absolute earliest.
Once he does that... maybe he can become the next Hincapie. Maybe. |
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| chrica04 |
Posted on 25-08-2009 19:40
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KurtinSC wrote:
chrica04 wrote:
I still think Phinney will be good, but the crash he just had doesn't help at all. I don't think I will compare him to EBH but he has a great chance.
Another guy in the US coming up right now is Alex Howes!
I don't think Phinney will do jack until he gives up the track.
And from the sound of it, he won't do that until 2012 at the absolute earliest.
Once he does that... maybe he can become the next Hincapie. Maybe.
Yea, I wish he would give up track |
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| schleck93 |
Posted on 25-08-2009 20:29
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I think he should keep the track untill he finds out what his potential is on the road. Would be stupid to ruin a carrer on the track, for a medicore road carrer
BenBarnes wrote:
Thor wears a live rattlesnake as a condom.
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 25-08-2009 20:44
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schleck93 wrote:
I think he should keep the track untill he finds out what his potential is on the road. Would be stupid to ruin a carrer on the track, for a medicore road carrer
Can you tell what your road potential is until you stop focusing on the track?
Look at Wiggins. If he had dropped Track 4 years ago would we have some hint that this year's TDF was coming?
I have no problem with him focusing on Track until 2012 for the Olympics. Probably a good move. He'll only by 22 at that point anyway.
But after that... I'd like to see him focus on the road (even if he does still ride some track). If he does the Wiggins track training program, we'll never see what he might do. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 25-08-2009 21:33
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After today, Hagen has... 1300+ CQ points 
Which means he is the 4th best rider of this year so far, only Contador, Cavendish and Valverde have accumulated more CQ points...
And @Kurtin the Hagen fan.
WRONG about type 2 fans.
Dekker, at age 22 (same age as Hagen now), had already won the Tirreno Adriatico AND the Tour de Romandie, plus top 6 in 3 hilly classics, plus numeroous other wins top 10's/good results.
And I thought he was a sure thing to win this and that and this.
WRONG.
You never know, not even with Hagen, you can say what you want but cycling is unpredictable as hell. You can't say he will win hilly classics or cobble classics or other small tours or whatever, you can't even say there is a big chance of that. Who knows?
Also, I would like to point out, that in the Ardennes stage Hagen was definately NOT strong. On the hardest climbs he was in great difficulty. And not by any good ardennes rider, but by f*cking Joost Posthuma. Joost Posthuma, not Valverde or Schleck, but Joost Posthuma. Also guys like Greg van Avermaet and Johan Vansummeren jumped away at that point, where Hagen was dropping back to the end of the pursuing group.
Just keep that in mind before declaring he will win hilly classics and this and that. Tehre are no certainties.
Edited by ruben on 25-08-2009 21:38
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 25-08-2009 21:49
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chrica04 wrote:
Another guy in the US coming up right now is Alex Howes!
Wait....Alex Howes???
I mean he's a good rider and all, but how do you put him in front of say, Stetina, when talking about good young American riders? I think Phinney is the best talent, but the next guy is probably Stetina with maybe Summerhill right after. I'd say Howes is one of the top 10 best US prospects, but he shouldn't be named right after Phinney.
EDIT: and if anyone wants to get on me about him winning the Queen stage of the ToU, I will politely ask if you think that equals Stetina's palmares.
I thought not.
Edited by Deadpool on 25-08-2009 21:58
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 25-08-2009 21:51
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KurtinSC wrote:
schleck93 wrote:
I think he should keep the track untill he finds out what his potential is on the road. Would be stupid to ruin a carrer on the track, for a medicore road carrer
Can you tell what your road potential is until you stop focusing on the track?
Look at Wiggins. If he had dropped Track 4 years ago would we have some hint that this year's TDF was coming?
I have no problem with him focusing on Track until 2012 for the Olympics. Probably a good move. He'll only by 22 at that point anyway.
But after that... I'd like to see him focus on the road (even if he does still ride some track). If he does the Wiggins track training program, we'll never see what he might do.
The road was the secondary training method for Wiggins. Call it cross training; like many roadies use cross during winter to train for the road, wiggins used the road to train for the track. So he would never have dropped the track then as it wasn't his aim, or where his motivation really lay then. Now he's decided to try the road 100%. You can't say what some rider may or may not have/will become based on random thoughts. That's (almost as bad as) like saying if Chris Hoy had continued doing MTBing he'd have easily been top 10 in the world.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 25-08-2009 21:54
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ruben wrote:
After today, Hagen has... 1300+ CQ points
Which means he is the 4th best rider of this year so far, only Contador, Cavendish and Valverde have accumulated more CQ points...
And @Kurtin the Hagen fan.
WRONG about type 2 fans.
Dekker, at age 22 (same age as Hagen now), had already won the Tirreno Adriatico AND the Tour de Romandie, plus top 6 in 3 hilly classics, plus numeroous other wins top 10's/good results.
And I thought he was a sure thing to win this and that and this.
WRONG.
You never know, not even with Hagen, you can say what you want but cycling is unpredictable as hell. You can't say he will win hilly classics or cobble classics or other small tours or whatever, you can't even say there is a big chance of that. Who knows?
Also, I would like to point out, that in the Ardennes stage Hagen was definately NOT strong. On the hardest climbs he was in great difficulty. And not by any good ardennes rider, but by f*cking Joost Posthuma. Joost Posthuma, not Valverde or Schleck, but Joost Posthuma. Also guys like Greg van Avermaet and Johan Vansummeren jumped away at that point, where Hagen was dropping back to the end of the pursuing group.
Just keep that in mind before declaring he will win hilly classics and this and that. Tehre are no certainties.
I have to whole heartedly agree with you Ruben. Just because a rider can, say, ride over one climb in a grand tour, or do ok, doesn't mean he's awesome at every other climb. I've found that in my own riding, I can do pretty darn well on the unsteep climbs, but the second it gets to Ardenne style - short and steep, I'm screwed beyond belief. Just doesn't suit me.
Hagen, at the moment, has focused, from what I can tell from interviews amongst results, flat riding. And don't get me wrong, he's proven he's successful at it, but I'd hold back he'll be able to repeat "holding on" in the Ardennes if he ever does those classics in Spring.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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| ruben |
Posted on 25-08-2009 21:56
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Well I know it's impossible to put KurtinSC or other 'type 2 fans' of the certainity idea.
Because I've been like that for years. But countless dissapointments or failed talents (whom I knew sure of would be great, like Popovych, Dekker, Giling, Grabovsky, etc) later, I know there are no certainties.
I just hope riders I like and did well in the past do well, and always repeat that. But I never never never will say anymore rider x will win this or that in the future. Or even will have a big chance of winning. We'll see. If you say it like this: "Rider X will do great here and there IF he keeps developing" than you can't go wrong 
the bold part is important |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 25-08-2009 21:59
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Well, one can only develop as far as their (natural) body can take them. So a lot of the guys who "burst" on to the scene may already be at their peak. And thats how they remain for years and years until they get the mental side sorted or do something special... (like drugs).
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 25-08-2009 22:01
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Lets just call it the Remmert Wielinga Corollary. Never ever say Young Rider X will win Race X in his career without qualifying the statement with "if he develops to his appeared potential."
Edited by Deadpool on 25-08-2009 22:03
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| ruben |
Posted on 25-08-2009 22:02
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Yeah, riders like Boonen and Valverde reached their peak very early. Valverde even got slightly worse GT-wise. And Boonen got worse sprinting-wise.
There is a good chance Boasson Hagen will be close to, or even at, his peak already. Thats also kinda logical, because you can't become very much better than world class. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-08-2009 22:07
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Deadpool wrote:
Lets just call it the Remmert Wielinga Corollary. Never ever say Young Rider X will win Race X in his career without qualifying the statement with "if he develops to his appeared potential."
If you'll allow me, here's a perfect example:
Imagine a guy who as an espoir wins everything. Everything. Mountains, hills, time trials, worlds. Even Roubaix.
Think of how much Hagen had won by May of this year when he was winning his Giro stage. By that point, this guy I'm talking about was finishing the Giro 3rd overall.
This year he finished the Giro 15th and the Tour 41st and hasn't won a race in forever.
You can never. ever. ever. ever. ever. ever. EVER. predict how a rider will develop.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 25-08-2009 22:10
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specialy after what they have done with Wiggins.. |
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