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Le Tour 09: Stage 10 - Limoges - Issoudun
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| Wolfos |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:04
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ringo182 wrote:
but cav won the milan-san remo after everyone said he wouldn't get up the hills. you say hushovd is capable of beating cavendish but how many times has he beaten him in the last 2 years? in a sprint cav will win 9 times out of 10. he can win any kind of sprint on any gradient because he is simply more powerful then anyone else in the world at the moment.
I also think Cav would beat Thor 19 times out of 20 on the flat, but I think Thor can beat him on an uphill finish like today if he doesn't have to catch a 2 meter gap first. That was what happened today. When has Cavendish ever beaten Hushovd in any sprint with a relevant gradient uphill? My point is that Cavendish didn't stand a chance in Barcelona, and that a stage like that should be as important for the jersey as a completely flat stage.
If Cavs train wasn't so good, stuff like on stage 3 of the ToC would also happen more often. Hushovd won, Columbias train collapsed and Renshaw finished third, with Cav fifth. |
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| Il Grillo |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:06
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doddy13 wrote:
wait for the Alpes. Them stages look quite good actually.
-Verbier, unbody's talking about it, but it's the first appointment for GC guys, oh and it's Sunday
Where from there? Well...
Finally....
What about fridays stage? You definately cant win the tour there, but you can lose it there. I remember a giro stage in the past where LPR really shrinked the field on a climb like the "Col du Platzerwasel"
Edited by Il Grillo on 14-07-2009 21:07
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:07
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Wolfos wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
but cav won the milan-san remo after everyone said he wouldn't get up the hills. you say hushovd is capable of beating cavendish but how many times has he beaten him in the last 2 years? in a sprint cav will win 9 times out of 10. he can win any kind of sprint on any gradient because he is simply more powerful then anyone else in the world at the moment.
I also think Cav would beat Thor 19 times out of 20 on the flat, but I think Thor can beat him on an uphill finish like today if he doesn't have to catch a 2 meter gap first. That was what happened today. When has Cavendish ever beaten Hushovd in any sprint with a relevant gradient uphill? My point is that Cavendish didn't stand a chance in Barcelona, and that a stage like that should be as important for the jersey as a completely flat stage.
If Cavs train wasn't so good, stuff like on stage 3 of the ToC would also happen more often. Hushovd won, Columbias train collapsed and Renshaw finished third, with Cav fifth.
Today wasnt an uphill finish, and I am curious about this so-called 2 metres gap that I must have missed...
And you can hardly compare the Tour de France to the Tour of California - stature of race, fitness/form of riders, position on calendar etc etc |
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| ruben |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:07
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@ringo182: we saw that in Barcelona, 500m at 6%, Cavendish had no chance.
Be fair. On really hard finishes Cavendish is beatable. On anything flat or slightly uphill there is no way in hell you can beat Cavendish, unless maybe if he is launched too early and there is headwind, like the Tirreno stage Farrar won. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:13
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ruben wrote:
@ringo182: we saw that in Barcelona, 500m at 6%, Cavendish had no chance.
Be fair. On really hard finishes Cavendish is beatable. On anything flat or slightly uphill there is no way in hell you can beat Cavendish, unless maybe if he is launched too early and there is headwind, like the Tirreno stage Farrar won.
yeah, i suppose i got a bit carried away. but i don't get this "cav only wins because of his train" talk. who else could have caught and passed Haussler on the line at MSR? No-one. cav has the speed and skill to follow any wheel and then out sprint anyone. he can bridge gaps no-one else would even try for. yes, he has the best train but he doesn't win because of it. |
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| Wolfos |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:16
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Wolfos wrote:
I also think Cav would beat Thor 19 times out of 20 on the flat, but I think Thor can beat him on an uphill finish like today if he doesn't have to catch a 2 meter gap first. That was what happened today. When has Cavendish ever beaten Hushovd in any sprint with a relevant gradient uphill? My point is that Cavendish didn't stand a chance in Barcelona, and that a stage like that should be as important for the jersey as a completely flat stage.
If Cavs train wasn't so good, stuff like on stage 3 of the ToC would also happen more often. Hushovd won, Columbias train collapsed and Renshaw finished third, with Cav fifth.
Today wasnt an uphill finish, and I am curious about this so-called 2 metres gap that I must have missed...
And you can hardly compare the Tour de France to the Tour of California - stature of race, fitness/form of riders, position on calendar etc etc
My only point with the ToC is that their train didn't work on that stage. Cavendish gave up early in the sprint, but he would never have won with that position anyway. That was Hushovds first sprint this season (i.e. fitness/form not important).
Todays finish was a long slightly uphill drag to the line, from about 600-1k out. If you watch the sprint again, when Hincapie leaves Renshaw on the front, Hushovd loses Cavs wheel somewhat in the righthand turn. |
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| Cremalex |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:20
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I don´t think top finishes are the only solution because in mostly of the stages that ended on top the fight betwwen the GC contenders reduces only to last kms.
I think the cue is in the climbs before the final climb. Andorra and Verbier are not bad climbs but they don´t have hard climbs before that could break the formation of Astana with long attacks and team strategy. In Andorra they have Ordino to make stage harder and in Verbier they have Champex, but the Tour has preferred light stages and all the show concentrated in last climb.
I miss long breakaways in the last years. Who doesn´t remember Chiapucci in Sestriere, Pantani in Galibier, Virenque suicidal breakways... they made me jump on the sofa and made me love this sport but nowadays this generation presumption limits only to last 10 or 5 kms.
And now, If I have to analyse each mountain stage I will continue saying that the only one that has that taste of Tour of France is Le Grand Bornand.
Andorra and Verbier, "monoclimbs" stages with little wear for Astana because of the absence of hardness before.
Saint Girons and Tarbes stages with last climb so far from arrival that it's imposible that anyone of the GC contenders could attack.
Saint Bernards' stage has two long climbs but with no big slope to make difference between favourites. Only secondary actors will appear this day.
And Mont Ventoux, well, Mount Ventoux is like a menace for this Tour. Everyone are so scared about this climb that noone wants to spend any grame of stamina before this stage and are letting us with this perennial boredom on every stage.
Edited by Cremalex on 14-07-2009 21:26
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:20
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I would say that Columbia train (he is team nr, 1..and Tour team at first is team for Cavendish) will raise he's win % about 40%...
If Cav. is "freelancer" (even more fun to follow)..then it is much easyer to beat him..he sometimes get blocked..starting to early..is to far behind etc. etc.
We have to admire Hushovd and Farrar..they have been always there and ready to try again to beat Cav. so far..not even close. |
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| Cremalex |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:28
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Grillo, remember that on Friday won't be radio again, so may happen another embarrassing strike as today's that let one interesting stage in another crappy show with professionals riding as if they were cyclotourists. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:33
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Cremalex wrote:
Grillo, remember that on Friday won't be radio again, so may happen another embarrassing strike as today's that let one interesting stage in another crappy show with professionals riding as if they were cyclotourists.
Teams already talking like they have won this battle and ASO will back off.
Let's see.. |
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| pangare |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:55
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In 2008 Tour, i remember a stage that rained and Cavendish only had Ciolek with him in the last k and they finished 1st and 2nd and were bad positioned in the last 500 meters.
Cav has a great train but i think that even without it he is unbeatable. |
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| schleck93 |
Posted on 14-07-2009 21:58
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Farrar could have done so much better today if he had follow his leadout man that moved up along side the columbia train, he nearly crashed because of Hincapie though, but would hvae been so much nicer if someone would atleast try and make a train battle Columbias. Nobody even dares.
BenBarnes wrote:
Thor wears a live rattlesnake as a condom.
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| seldon71 |
Posted on 14-07-2009 22:40
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What I'd love to see would be Caisse making 17th stage a hellishly hard right fromstart (Roselend & Saisies Pass). They are not going to figure in overall anyway, but Rojas Gil might have an outside chance for Green by eliminating Hushovd & Cavendish via time limit.
That would of course make a really interesting stage too... |
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| Sherpa |
Posted on 14-07-2009 23:11
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seldon71 wrote:
What I'd love to see would be Caisse making 17th stage a hellishly hard right fromstart (Roselend & Saisies Pass). They are not going to figure in overall anyway, but Rojas Gil might have an outside chance for Green by eliminating Hushovd & Cavendish via time limit.
That would of course make a really interesting stage too...
 very cool idea!! I would love this sport much more if things like that happened more often |
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 15-07-2009 00:45
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Can't wait for the nexr radio free day.  |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 15-07-2009 18:14
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Looking again at the results for the stage, it looks like the 15 second gap in the so-called split that was initially included has since been removed.
Good news for Wiggins, Leipheimer and the others who may otherwise have lost 15 seconds in a pretty farcial way |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 15-07-2009 19:15
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Was mentioned a couple of times in the Stage 11 thread  |
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 15-07-2009 19:17
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CrueTrue wrote:
Was mentioned a couple of times in the Stage 11 thread
he's been avoiding it. He doesn't watch it live, he watches it at 7pm on itv. So, now.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 15-07-2009 21:00
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Plus the fact that it has everything to do with Stage 10 and barely anything to do with Stage 11 |
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