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Race Routes Discussion
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 12:19
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Riis123 wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Well the lack of tt miles is obviously an attempt by the organisers to ensure Froome isn't given a 5 minute headstart over Quintana. I guess they're hoping the others can make it a proper competition right into the last week with less tt's.
Not sure I agree with organisers planning routes specifically to hinder particular riders. It's like them changing the rules of the points jersey to try to stop Sagan winning. If a rider is clearly the best of his generation then he deserves to win a number of times.
I know they want to make the race interesting but they can do that without intentionally planning a route to stop Froome. The inclusion of a cobbled/PR style stage is one thing they could do. Although after the carnage the last time they did that I think that's put them off for a while 
Yes, why do we want to watch one of the most epic stages in modern Tour history again. That stage was a bummer, right.
Froome crashend even before the cobbles due to an injured sustained beforehand, he couldn't even hold onto his bike in that weather anymore. So regardless he woulda been out. It basically gave us a perfect scenario with Contador 3 minutes down which he would expected to slowly gain back over the many difficulties that route had to provide (a good thing, that time gaps thing). Unfortunately, Contador crashed and robbed us all for potentially the best Tour since 2003, maybe even better.
Again, I never said I didn't want a cobbled stage. I actually said that is what they should do. I said the organisers will probably steer clear after what happened last time.
Then tell me what happened?
The favourite crashed out and the peloton was blown apart to such an extent that Nibali had more or less won the race after 5 stages.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 13:07
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Good stuff on completely ignoring my post beforehand then. 
I can say it again tho: It was a perfect scenario with Contador 3 minutes down before all the big mountains. Froome crashed on an earlier stage and crashed before the cobbles. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 13:33
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Riis123 wrote:
Good stuff on completely ignoring my post beforehand then.
I can say it again tho: It was a perfect scenario with Contador 3 minutes down before all the big mountains. Froome crashed on an earlier stage and crashed before the cobbles.
Yeah, but the crash before the cobbles was due to the tension of trying to stay at the front and be in a good position for the cobbles.
He's done hundreds of flat stages and not crashed.
Nibali was more than strong enough to hold Contador off for 3 minutes. He'd taken time out of Contador already in Yorkshire. Why was Contador all of a sudden guaranteed to make up 3 minutes?
I don't know why we're even arguing. We both agree the route is a bit rubbish and a cobbled stage would be a good thing to include
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 13:44
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It was a 50/50 at that point - as I've said earlier, the perfect scenario where the better climber has to make up a significant amount of time on a mountain-heavy course where it definitely was possible. Contador was by no means guaranteed to win, I haven't said that, but he was the slightly better climber than Nibali in 2014. It would have been one of the ages.
I think we are arguing because you think what transpired was bad for the race while I argued it wasn't. And on top of that, it was like watching Paris-Roubaix in the summertime, only this time with GC-implications. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 13:52
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Riis123 wrote:
It was a 50/50 at that point - as I've said earlier, the perfect scenario where the better climber has to make up a significant amount of time on a mountain-heavy course where it definitely was possible. Contador was by no means guaranteed to win, I haven't said that, but he was the slightly better climber than Nibali in 2014. It would have been one of the ages.
I think we are arguing because you think what transpired was bad for the race while I argued it wasn't. And on top of that, it was like watching Paris-Roubaix in the summertime, only this time with GC-implications.
I never said that
I said the organisers wouldn't want to do it again due to what happened. I actually said a cobbled stage is something they could do to add excitement rather then reducing the number of TT miles/Mountain Stages.
A cobbled stage in a grand tour is a huge risk because there is the possibility of some of the favourites crashing out or losing so much time the race is effectively nullified. I agree it could be amazing if it works out well. But it could also be a disaster as unfortunately happened in 2014.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 14:23
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Yet they did it the year after because it was the best spectacle you could possibly imagine. In 2015.
2014 was no disaster. At all. Froome had crashed and could barely hold on to his bicycle the day before. He was unfortunate it rained that day, but that happens. What was a disaster was the fact that Contador crashed, not Froome. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 15:03
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That's true. Although the 2015 route had probably already been decided, if not announced, before the 2014 stage had taken place.
I agree that cobbled stages would be a good inclusion. But if the organisers are looking to keep the race close until the last week then a cobbled stage won't help that. It'll do the opposite.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 16:28
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ringo182 wrote:
That's true. Although the 2015 route had probably already been decided, if not announced, before the 2014 stage had taken place.
I agree that cobbled stages would be a good inclusion. But if the organisers are looking to keep the race close until the last week then a cobbled stage won't help that. It'll do the opposite.
And thats the sad part. Smalls tmegaps doesn't equal exciting racing - most often the opposite. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-10-2016 07:15
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Riis123 wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
That's true. Although the 2015 route had probably already been decided, if not announced, before the 2014 stage had taken place.
I agree that cobbled stages would be a good inclusion. But if the organisers are looking to keep the race close until the last week then a cobbled stage won't help that. It'll do the opposite.
And thats the sad part. Smalls tmegaps doesn't equal exciting racing - most often the opposite.
This!
Look at this years Tour...the most boring one (GC wise) i have ever witnessed and the gaps in top10 were so small. Exciting racing usually brings bigger gaps, especially near the end of the race, as riders risk more...
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 20-10-2016 07:21
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-10-2016 07:16
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We would probably get more exciting racing if Froome was sure that he can put 5-10 minutes into others (like with 100 TT kilometres), because then SKY would not be so keen to control the race until stage 20...
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 12:56
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-10-2016 08:03
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I agree.
The best stages/tours are when riders know they have too something to make up a gap or ensure they have enough of a gap to hold off another rider.
Look at Nibali on the last Mountain stage of the Giro, or Quintana attaking from the first climb and putting minutes into Froome at the Vuelta.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 28-10-2016 12:26
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Can a mod please carry the posts of Ringo, Riis and Avin to another thread?
This thread is about the races we make,not for discussing the real races.
PS:For the point I agree with Riis and Avin. |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 17-11-2016 16:35
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Some Asturian newspaper reports the return of the Angliru in the 2017 Vuelta. Local newspaper, so it seems quite reliable.
https://www.lavozd...156488.htm
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