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News in December
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 18-12-2013 20:17
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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TTtheGladiator wrote:
Movistar TDU lineup:
-Moreno
-Gutierrez
-Erviti
-Plaza
-Rojas
-Visconti
-Lobato
Movistar Tour de San Luis lineup:
-N.Quintana
-D.Quintana
-Amador
-Intxausti
-Ventoso
-Malori
why they keep naming tour squad at december? This is just stupid..who will be planned leader is enough
Rin wrote:
Rogers - 2006 - Tour de France *cough*
Rogers and T-Mobile works better
issoisso wrote:
This is just like the Postal days.
Obvious doper joins dominant team with other shady characters. Puts in best performances of his life. Moves teams. Sucks. Positive.
exact words...Postal vol.2 all the way
Edited by Guido Mukk on 18-12-2013 20:21
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 18-12-2013 20:27
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Guido Mukk wrote:
TTtheGladiator wrote:
Movistar TDU lineup:
-Moreno
-Gutierrez
-Erviti
-Plaza
-Rojas
-Visconti
-Lobato
Movistar Tour de San Luis lineup:
-N.Quintana
-D.Quintana
-Amador
-Intxausti
-Ventoso
-Malori
why they keep naming tour squad at december? This is just stupid..who will be planned leader is enough
Because those designed riders are already there / will be going there quite soon. What's the point not naming them ?
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| CountArach |
Posted on 18-12-2013 20:45
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
Joined: 14-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Alakagom wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
TTtheGladiator wrote:
Movistar TDU lineup:
-Moreno
-Gutierrez
-Erviti
-Plaza
-Rojas
-Visconti
-Lobato
Movistar Tour de San Luis lineup:
-N.Quintana
-D.Quintana
-Amador
-Intxausti
-Ventoso
-Malori
why they keep naming tour squad at december? This is just stupid..who will be planned leader is enough
Because those designed riders are already there / will be going there quite soon. What's the point not naming them ?
Methinks he read it as TdF.
So Rogers tested positive? It's a Christmas miracle. Another one of the old guard busted.
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 18-12-2013 22:27
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3440
Joined: 09-10-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
Jens Voigt the hypocrite gave yet another interview bla bla bla I'm innocent bla bla bla I never did drugs bla bla bla
Tyler wishes Jens would stop lying
From my one read through on the train he pretty much says he doped without saying it...other than when he's asked the direct question and he says no...
I actually found his whole it's not just black or white perspective quite interesting, taken with a very large pinch of salt. |
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| TTtheGladiator |
Posted on 19-12-2013 04:00
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Free Agent
Posts: 145
Joined: 03-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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CountArach wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
TTtheGladiator wrote:
Movistar TDU lineup:
-Moreno
-Gutierrez
-Erviti
-Plaza
-Rojas
-Visconti
-Lobato
Movistar Tour de San Luis lineup:
-N.Quintana
-D.Quintana
-Amador
-Intxausti
-Ventoso
-Malori
why they keep naming tour squad at december? This is just stupid..who will be planned leader is enough
Because those designed riders are already there / will be going there quite soon. What's the point not naming them ?
Methinks he read it as TdF.
Agreed, I think he read it as TdF  Tour Down Under people! It's not too early to be naming squads now 
When you can't decide between two options, flip a coin. Not because the result of the coin will choose for you, but because, in that split second before the coin lands, you'll know what side you want it to fall on. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 19-12-2013 06:01
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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jako3219 wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:
jako3219 wrote:
Wow, didn't see that coming (Rogers' doping). It doesn't prove anything about SKY, but it puts them under suspect.
What will Tinkoff-Saxo do if Rogers gets supendet?
I hope they've signet Sánchez or else they will surely get f***ed by SKY again next juli.
They might sign Sánchez, they might sign with Jesus Christ. Won't change a thing. They will still get their asses handed over to them across all the year. And you can't never forget old habits can you?
Well you're propably right about Them getting their asses kicked next year.
Like when the won AGR and got four different riders in the GT top8s? Of course Contador was expected to do much better, but i think Majka, Roman and Roche were punching pretty high...
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 19-12-2013 06:45
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I find it hard to believe that Rogers was deliberately taking a substance that can easily be detected to win a minor race, which basically guarantees him getting busted. So, most likely, he did something really stupid: eating meat in Asia, which has a very high risk of clenbuterol contamination. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 19-12-2013 07:10
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
Joined: 14-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Blueprint wrote:
I find it hard to believe that Rogers was deliberately taking a substance that can easily be detected to win a minor race, which basically guarantees him getting busted. So, most likely, he did something really stupid: eating meat in Asia, which has a very high risk of clenbuterol contamination.
Or more probably, as Contador probably did, he took it while training to lose weight in the offseason, then had some blood removed (which was thus contaminated with it) and had a blood transfusion before the race, which re-injected teh Clenbuterol into his system. It has very few advantages in-race, it is true, but the weightloss benefits are quite high. I would agree that he may have had it from contaminated meat (and that is certainly more likely in Asia than in Europe) but being on the same team as Contador (and thus sharing a team doctor and possibly external 'helpers' ) IMO makes that a less likely defence. Particularly combined with his sudden re-emergence as a very real GC rider, which is completely suspicious. A man with a suspicious past, riding on a suspicious team during a suspicious patch of form is more likely than not doping when he tests positive.
As for why he would take it to win a 'minor' race, I can think of two reasons. Remember that having the UCI points from winning a 1.HC race would make him more valuable in terms of his contract. This is incredibly important at his age, and it would also make his current employer happier with him. I don't know whether this was individual or team-sanctioned obviously, but either would have ample motive. Further, he has had a very, very long season (started at Tour Med in early February with at least one race every month, except for September where he dropped out of a race). To maintain a level of performance all year that would allow him to be 2nd at Tour of California, 6th at Dauphine, 16th in the Tour while working for his leader and still winning a race at the very end of October (even Japan Cup), he would need transfusions. There is no other way around it.
So in summary, he has a really dodgy list of previous teams, he has been implicated in things before (mentioned by Sinkewitz in 2007 for example), he has had suspicious performances from year-to-year and he has sustained a high level of form for a long period of time. These are all things that are generally indicative of doping and, now that he has tested positive for a drug that is commonly available and quite popular in the peloton at the moment, I find little reason to doubt that he has doped.
Edited by CountArach on 19-12-2013 07:11
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 19-12-2013 07:18
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Few arguments against that:
1. Contador had his clenbuterol case as an Astana rider, not as a Saxo-Tinkoff rider.
2. Rogers has an ongoing contract with his team and Rider Values are not important this year anyway with just 18 teams applying for WT license. And doping for the Japan Cup to have a better position on the market one year later seems a little bit far-fetched.
3. It would be quite a coincidence if someone is doing blood transfusions throughout the season and gets busted in Asia, where they are upholding a dodgy reputation when it comes to clenbuterol in the food chain.
4. Which sudden re-emergence as a very real GC rider are you talking about? Rogers had one crappy season, but apart from that he's been very consistent and never outstanding.
Edited by Blueprint on 19-12-2013 07:53
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 09:46
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| CountArach |
Posted on 19-12-2013 08:03
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
Joined: 14-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Blueprint wrote:
1. Contador had his clenbuterol case as an Astana rider, not as a Saxo-Tinkoff rider.
Fair point but it does show that he has a doping program that he has been using in the past and may be continuing with now.
Blueprint wrote:
2. Rogers has an ongoing contract with his team and Rider Values are not important this year anyway with just 18 teams applying for WT license. And doping for the Japan Cup to have a better position on the market one year later seems a little bit far-fetched.
It isn't important this year, but next year it may well be. The points last for 2 years. If Rogers wants to extend his career for another 2-3 years then it makes sense to have recent wins on his palmares.
EDIT: This is particularly true with Tinkoff on board, who is known to only value results above all else.
Blueprint wrote:
3. It would be quite a coincidence if someone is doing blood transfusions throughout the season and gets busted in Asia, where they are upholding a dodgy reputation when it comes to clenbuterol in the food chain.
While I see your point, we should not discount these things for location-specific reasons.
Blueprint wrote:
4. Which sudden re-emergence as a very real GC rider are you talking about? Rogers had one crappy season, but apart from that he's been very consistent and never outstanding.
Not true. For this I point you to the graph of his CQ results:
https://www.cqrank...iderid=114
Note the decline from 05-07 then his re-emergence slowly after that, reaching his peak at age 30 under Sky. Then he had an off year roughly when one would expect an older rider to have, only to find his form once again this year. This is not a normal development cycle.
Edited by CountArach on 19-12-2013 08:04
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| krisa |
Posted on 19-12-2013 08:05
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3962
Joined: 12-04-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Jonathan Breyne also positive on clenbuterol |
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| Wilier |
Posted on 19-12-2013 08:28
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5405
Joined: 28-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Adam Hansen is at it again!
https://twitter.c...
Edited by Wilier on 19-12-2013 08:28
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| krisa |
Posted on 19-12-2013 08:31
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3962
Joined: 12-04-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Truck of La pomme stolen
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 19-12-2013 08:40
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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1. Contador's clenbuterol case only shows that he may have doped at Astana. It's not even certain and it's even less certain that he is on dope at Saxo-Tinkoff. Even less certain is Rogers being in the same scheme, so it's pure speculation.
2. I don't consider that much of a concern for a highly regarded rider as Rogers, but we can't say for sure that it's not important to him. Anyway, once again pure speculation.
3. Speculation, anyone? Being busted on clenbuterol now doesn't automatically mean blood transfusions throughout the season. We just don't know that.
4. From 2006 on, Rogers decided to focus on the GC of grand tours. So he had to improve his climbing abilities in the high mountains, which made his time trial go downhill and stopped him from winning world championships in that discipline. That's costing a lot of points. 2006 wasn't efficient for him in CQ points because of the season build-up, but still he managed to ride top-10 in the Tour de France. In 2007, he was doing well in TdF too, but had a dramatic crash when he was on the attack with Rasmussen. 2008 was mainly focused on the Olympics, where he did well and the results after are very consistent, apart from his first year at Sky, when he suffered from illness and injuries. Development cycles are not linear and you can't just use CQ to prove that someone has doped.
So, while others may be quick to condemn him, I honestly have no idea if Rogers used dope to win the Japan Cup or not. There are certainly circumstances that make any harsh judgement premature. Fact is that he's been incredibly stupid though. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 19-12-2013 08:52
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Easily one of the greatest riders in the peloton
You gotta love his sense of humor! |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 19-12-2013 10:26
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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krisa wrote:
Jonathan Breyne also positive on clenbuterol
I guess this makes the Asian meat theory a bit stronger..
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 19-12-2013 10:51
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
Joined: 14-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Interesting little note here:
https://www.telegr...n-Cup.html
It is common for athletes to be warned not to eat meat in China because it can contain clenbuterol and Britain’s Matt Brammeier, who also rode at the Tour of Beijing, put a post on Twitter on Wednesday night, saying: “I’d say more than 50 per cent guys did. Every night meat at the buffet.”
Just absolute morons. If you are a professional athlete you have to control what goes into your body and you have to be super careful.
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 19-12-2013 10:56
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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CountArach wrote:
Interesting little note here:
https://www.telegr...n-Cup.html
It is common for athletes to be warned not to eat meat in China because it can contain clenbuterol and Britain’s Matt Brammeier, who also rode at the Tour of Beijing, put a post on Twitter on Wednesday night, saying: “I’d say more than 50 per cent guys did. Every night meat at the buffet.”
Just absolute morons. If you are a professional athlete you have to control what goes into your body and you have to be super careful.
You have a point there, with the current rules it's a stupid thing to do. However, if meat is contaminated that easily, one could also question the rules about clenbuterol: maybe zero tolerance is not the way to go and some limit should be implemented. I still think that doping regulations should be reasonable, instead of pushing further and further to affect people's lives. |
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 19-12-2013 11:08
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Team Leader
Posts: 6036
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Well you if you widen the rules in that sense then you'll never gonna catch anyone. The most powerful dopers are always ahead of the doping authorities. If you want to have a chance at catching them, you have to at least be thorough.
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 19-12-2013 11:20
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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For me there are limits to how far you can go to catch dopers. And when there is a serious risk of contaminated meat, I think imposing a limit for clenbuterol is more sensible than forcing all athletes to become vegetarians whenever they visit Asia (although even in EU there is always a risk). |
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