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25-11-2024 05:30
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Tour de France, Stage 20 - Sunday, Rambouillet - Paris Champs-Élysées
Pellizotti2
sutty68 wrote:
But had Cavendish not been baby sitting Wiggins then he would have easily beat Sagan to the jersey (sorry to upset you, but that is just my opinion)Wink

I strongly disagree.

Sagan gained too much on the other sprinters from the first week's uphill finishes and the stage to Foix.
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Avin Wargunnson
Cavendish is faster of course, but he would need 6-7 teammates dedicated to him to steal the jersey i think, because Sagan has the advantage of hilly stages. And remember that Sagan achieved this 421 points without lead-out man, only Oss in some stages in the last kilometre.Wink

I'll be back
 
Kirchen_75
Pellizotti2 wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
But had Cavendish not been baby sitting Wiggins then he would have easily beat Sagan to the jersey (sorry to upset you, but that is just my opinion)Wink

I strongly disagree.

Sagan gained too much on the other sprinters from the first week's uphill finishes and the stage to Foix.


This. Sagan is a much better all-rounder than Cavendish already, he's just amazing and the best thing about him is that he's 22. OH JOY
 
Avin Wargunnson
Btw. Cavendish gained 340 points last year with team fully dedicated to him. That is still 80 points less. Smile
I'll be back
 
emre99
Tour de France 2013!

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3rd Stage: Ajaccio - Calvi 145 km Medium Mountain stage
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CLURPR
Just been to my local supermarket this morning, took a look at the papers for today and Wiggins is plastered all over them Grin
 
Smowz
Well it was the Tour what Wiggo won really. The tour had it's moments, but with very few dramatic GC moments it will not be remembered as a must watch one. I thought the three mountain top finish stages were okay, Froome was the best rider on all three for me. That said Wiggins was monstrous in all three time trials.

So many thoughts put a few team by team thoughts in spoilers below just cause I know most of your don't want a wall of text!

As a Brit, it is just great to see the media coverage and yes if Chris Hoy gets knighted I am sure we will get our Sir Bradley to guard our realm too.

My top ten tour 2012 guys are:
1. Sir Wiggo - he got it and he didn't win it in a raffle!
2. Saganator - brilliant celebrations and loved his sulky mood in Paris.
3. Baby face Voeckler - okay you've won me over know, chapaeu
4. Super-brat Cavendish - stage 18 and 20 just wow sprints the guys recovery is amazing.
5. Froome-dog (thanks to Millar for that) - hurry up vuelta I want to know
6. Gorilla Gurning Greipel - number two sprinter in the world?
7. Cancellara - brilliant prologue, should be a great Olympic TT battle
8. Nibbles - podium at tour, now go and win a Giro I say
9. 'screming mad Madiot inspried' Pinot - loved the passion and a 22 year old french stage racing hope.
10. Tejay (I'm better than Phinney) Van Garderen - The US need someone to move them along from you know whom.

Great tours for:

Sky -
Spoiler
Obviously a superb tour, Wiggins delivered as expected in the time trials and after the display on La Planche des Belles Filles was untroubled on the climbs. Given that they lost Siutsou on day three, his five man pace squad (along with Eisel and Cav for a ceremonial amount of time) dominated the tour really. To such an extent it made it a little dull in places, I don't feel as if that is Sky's fault the opposition simply was not strong enough.

The headline this morning is that Cavendish may have to move on if he wants to go back to five or six stage wins in a tour (but with Sagan and Greipal around I think those days may be over anyway). Six stage wins and the top two on GC, it doesn't get much better really, like to think they are more 1985 La Vie Claire than 1996 Team Telekom. Froome could be like Lemond now and really be a super GTour rider.


Liquigas -
Spoiler
Nibali showed a little more than he did at last year's Giro, but it is hard to see on this evidence that he will be good enough to win Le Tour. He is a good bike handler, doesn't crash often and downhills extremely well. But we do see him tailled off from the favourites from time to time - but battles hard when having a bad day a la Scarponi and Evans. Has improved his time trialling, but not by as much as Paul and Phil seemed to imagine (they forget Nibali's Vuelta win was set up by a strong TT performance). The sad thing for Liquigas is Nibali is moving to another (Astana probably) not sure whether this will work for Nibali.

Sagan was brilliant, was impressed that one of his three stage wins came from a flat out sprint. This guy could win that green jersey over and over again if he wanted too. Was in breakaways as well and we recall an exploring type of classics season for him. Milan San Remo should be in his range next year, perhaps the Ardennes or cobbles as well.


Europcar -
Spoiler
Voeckler and Rolland confirmed last years performance. Voeckler continues to delight, enlivening the Pyrenees with an enthralling capture of the polkadots jersey along with two fantastic stage wins. Rolland for me struggled in the Pyrenees after a brilliant Alps stage win, it seems as if that stage win was the main aim this year. Cannot see the guy progressing much further though.


FdJeux -
Spoiler
Pinot looks the real deal, kept it going pretty well in the Pyrenees. Needs to continue to improve though which may be tough at FdJeux. Great memories of Madiot urging his young charge on to his stage win.


BMC -
Spoiler
'The American with a dutch sounding name' - that's what Sherwin has labelled the young American of dutch descent - we get it Sherwin he ain't Dutch. Van Garderen had a great Tour, his time trialling is very strong and he climbed well enough. Surprised to see headlines on cyclingnews saying one more year for Evans then we will go all out for TvG - Evans is done for me. Hincapie, TvG and a battling former champion allow me to ignore a horrible tour (and year) for Gilbert.


Lotto - Belesol -
Spoiler
Van den Broeck and Vanendert had a few digs and VdB got a decent GC result (though no better than what he had done previously). A real shame that VdB had a mechanical on La Planche des Belles Filles as I think he could have pushed Nibali a little closer. That said I think we can see VdB's limit now, Vanendert has not kicked on from that brilliant stage win last year a shame.

But the success here was Greipel and his three stage wins - sadly faded towards the end robbing us of a big battle in Paris. A very solid sprinter who can outsprint anyone on his day, such a valuable commodity.


So - so tours for:

Radioshack -
Spoiler
Loved the battling performance of Cancellara, Horner and Voigt. Kloden, Zubeldia and Monfort also did the best they could to deliver the unloved teams classification (yes those helmets were horrible - the yellow numbers were not good but the helmets were gah). Lacked a stage win and had a positive for a banned substance which underlines the farcical season for the Schlecks.

It's a team in complete disarray really when you consider the Fuglsang situation as well. Can they pull a Zaugg from nowhere in the Post Tour season? Andy Schleck at the Vuelta - I have my doubts.


Garmin -
Spoiler
Horrific first week with crashes, would have been fascinating to see how Hesjedal would have got on (probable top 10 I think). Brilliant recovery with a breakaway win with Millar. I don't like Vaughters little poor man act midway through the tour. He had a super - team with Garmin - Cervelo and then had that infamous 'don't chase' moment. That said always give good value and got their GTour win at the Giro which is a great result for the team. Dan Martin sucked (Though tried).


Movistar -
Spoiler
Valverde always looked a long shot for GC, never a factor on the punchy stages but did well to take the stage win. He clearly remains popular at home, so how do they play the Vuelta now? Cobo looked like he was building form nicely throughout, but Valverde also looks like he has done the same.

The stage win and numerous breakaways meant Movistar as expected after a good Tour de Suisse win were good value.


Astana -
Spoiler
Did as well as could be expected on GC with Brajkovic, were always looking to be active and challenge where they could. Kessiekoff challanged for the Polkadots and old man Vino looked to take a stage win. Clearly have a few transfer targets and have the look of a team without a reliable stage race leader at the moment. Kiserlowski, Brajkovic, Kessiekoff etc. would make fantastic domestiques for a guy with GC ambitions.


Saxo bank -
Spoiler
You have got to hand it to them, Morkov and CA Sorenson kept trying over and again. Sorenson was somehow in the King of the Mountains fight despite never really looking the best climber in the big breakaways. But he kept battling away and that hand looked horrible. The sprint trains were a little bizarre, usually coming to the front just to show their faces and say hey we have Haedo before being shut out of it. The new sponsor situation is clearly uplifting and guess who is just about to come back... You sense a big Vuelta performance coming up.


Shitty tour for:

Lampre -
Spoiler
Petacchi was never a factor, their jersey is noticable but was never there when it mattered. After a disappointing Giro, looks like this year will be a Grand Tour washout.


AG2R -
Spoiler
Peraud clearly had other distractions, like a Olympics and a child, yet he was one of their best riders. Roche failed to make the top ten again (narrowly this time admittedly), strange that we never really see Roche do anything but prepare and ride Grand Tours. Eight riders got round and other than Peraud or Roche the rest did very little but make up the numbers.


Cofidis -
Spoiler
Guido Mukk refused to get excited by Taaramae being the last one to drop on La Planche des Belles Filles. The rest of us thought hey that was a hell of a ride, there is always a problem with the young Estonian. But that doesn't excuse another washout of a tour, team seem to be relying on Moncoutie and Dumoulin for the upteenth year. Obviously they are small budget against the big boys, but need to justify their inclusion to the Tour.


Saur-Sojasun -
Spoiler
Okay this is just their second tour and Feillu had a decent day in the Pyrenees and went in a fair few breakaways. But when you look at Europcar, you wish that this team could come someway towards matching them. Coppel fancies himself as a Bradley Wiggins clone, but the guy can't climb or TT with anywhere near the quality required, I know he is what 25. Was disappointed with Simon and Leverlet thought they could have shown something.


Vaconsoliel -
Spoiler
A race to forget, for a team that have shown well this year through Westra and De Gendt in particular. I wonder whether De Gendt will do the tour next year? I fancied Poels to do a good GC, I think it is always difficult for a team when your best guy goes. Were Westra or Larsson injured? Hoogerland was disappointing I have to say.


Katusha -
Spoiler
You always suspected Menchov and Freire were a little long in the tooth, and with Tinkoff going with Saxo you wonder what the future is for Katusha? Some of the others were seen in breaks, but no-one could step up once Menchov failed. Last year's all Russian tour was a failure, this one was not any better.


Rabobank -
Spoiler
Okay LL Sanchez did well individually with a little help from his Rabobank friends. But that was a little like Boassen Hagen winning for Sky last year, a consolation prize. The unseemly sight of Ten Dem's spittle hanging out on a Pyreneen climb is the type of sight you wish for Mt Baldy at Tour of Crappyfornia. Gesink, Mollema, Kruijswijk the big three stage racing Dutch hopes were here - such a disappiontment to see little from them. I think Mollema and Gesink could certainly podium a Grand Tour (not exactly a bold statement I know) but not this one I think. Keldermann (who wasn't here) looks exciting.


Omega Pharma -
Spoiler
Desperate tour really, Martin's puncture in the prologue destroyed their plan A. Velits and Leipheimer clearly struggling for form before the tour could not discover anything like their best climbing. Velits TTed okay and Chavanel gave a few bursts, but certainly not the best tour for any of their riders.


Greenedge -
Spoiler
Wanted to act like hey isn't it great that we are here at the end, but I thought their first tour sucked. Have had a good first year in cycling with a stage win at the Giro, some good TT results and sneaky MSR/Catalunya wins. But a bit like Sky, the mass international media will judge you on your Tour results and returned very little despite going with the veterans card. Had their big three here in Goss, Gerrans and Albasini (all three look past their best for the season). Goss looked sluggish against Greipel, Cav and Sagan, the headline was the desperate disqualification - was not likely to challenge Sagan anyway.


Argos Shimano -
Spoiler
Usually seen slipping off the back of the pack, that aint a good sign. Made the decision to go all in for Kittel, understandable after he outsprinted Greipel and Cav at the KLM tour (the decision was probably made before then). Kittel obviously got hurt which was a shame and then Veelers (who is a great final lead-out) was doing a decent repair job. Then he went and got hurt, then team was stuck with not a lot. Threatened to do a Milram and do lead-outs with out a sprinter at one point and no that is not a good thing!

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sutty68
Looks a very interesting read, so i will sit down and read this a little bit later Wink
 
CountArach
Pretty much hit the bail on the head there except for BMC I think. TVG confirming his talent is great but 5th is way less than they had hoped for.
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(All opinions expressed are not guaranteed to reflect reality)
 
Aquarius
Hey, Coppel was ill, you can't really tell that what he showed in this year TDF reflects his actual potential.
 
Guido Mukk
and I am not done with Evans..at least I hope note. He did not had perfect preparation for tour.
Give me mint condition Evans and drop him at the mountains..then he is done.
TVG ..awsome stuff. Over any expectations.

Taaramäe..yeaah man just can not avoid problems. Good year..bad year..good year..bad year. He does not have Nibbali stability.
He had super star for season..then all did go wrong..see you next year..and then you are at men´s league.
Hugh problem next year..even he will notice that Cofidis is not team for him. Yes leader..yes comfortable..nice..but this guy realy needs a wake up call.
 
ianrussell
Guido Mukk wrote:
and I am not done with Evans..at least I hope note. He did not had perfect preparation for tour.
Give me mint condition Evans and drop him at the mountains..then he is done.
TVG ..awsome stuff. Over any expectations.

Taaramäe..yeaah man just can not avoid problems. Good year..bad year..good year..bad year. He does not have Nibbali stability.
He had super star for season..then all did go wrong..see you next year..and then you are at men´s league.
Hugh problem next year..even he will notice that Cofidis is not team for him. Yes leader..yes comfortable..nice..but this guy realy needs a wake up call.


Yeah, I think Evans may come back hard after this. He understandably dipped out for a bit after winning last year then had lots of disruption to his preparation this year. Think he may regain the appetite and have some better luck next year, even if he's nearly as old as me Pfft
 
ianrussell
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
But had Cavendish not been baby sitting Wiggins then he would have easily beat Sagan to the jersey (sorry to upset you, but that is just my opinion)Wink

I strongly disagree.

Sagan gained too much on the other sprinters from the first week's uphill finishes and the stage to Foix.


This. Sagan is a much better all-rounder than Cavendish already, he's just amazing and the best thing about him is that he's 22. OH JOY


Much as I enjoy watching Cavendish sprint I think it was always going to be a huge struggle to overhaul Sagan for Green. The guy can finish top 3 on the flat, win all the punchy finishes and then go hunting for intermediates in the mountains. If he had been more challenged this year you get the impression he could have pulled out a lot more points in breaks.
 
Smal
Argos-Shimano made a massive mistake in not bringing anyone who can get over climbs. They should've taken Geniez.
 
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