|
News in February
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 21-02-2011 20:30
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Wouldn't it be fun if Tondo was tested positive? 
https://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/jona...g-the-dots |
| |
|
|
| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 21-02-2011 20:32
|
Domestique
Posts: 463
Joined: 17-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Yes it would be hilarious. But seriously, I think we could all use and practice a little of what JV is saying. |
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 21-02-2011 20:36
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Massive PR exercise Johnny. I thought I could puke a rainbow after reading that. |
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 21-02-2011 20:44
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
That's class by Vaughters. He didn't have to say any of that.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| mb2612 |
Posted on 21-02-2011 20:50
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
That's pretty much the most convincing argument I've read that someone, or in this case a team, doesn't dope.
Being cynical aside, I'm impressed Vaughters wrote that.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 21-02-2011 20:52
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
But, but, but, hadn't I read here or in another thread that Tondo was actually one of the guys whose house was raided and where some stuff has been found ? |
| |
|
|
| valverde321 |
Posted on 21-02-2011 20:54
|
World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
|
issoisso wrote:
That's class by Vaughters. He didn't have to say any of that.
+1
Although it would be hilarious if he did test positive. But he says "You can never change the past" when refering to doping, yet he has past dopers on the team. Hmmm.
|
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 21-02-2011 21:36
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
The four wild cards for Amstel Gold Race go to Landbouwkrediet, Topsport Vlaanderen, Veranda's Willems and Skil-Shimano. |
| |
|
|
| Ildabaoth |
Posted on 21-02-2011 22:15
|
Domestique
Posts: 695
Joined: 22-03-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
I tend not to believe than an elite cyclist like Tondo can be so good without doping. However, in his case there isn't just his help to uncover the doping ring in Girona. As far as I know, he is one of the few top cyclists who don't disagree about allowing doping controls 24 hours. You know that a lot of drugs can be used because their window detection time is less than 8 hours, just enough to use them by night and not producing a positive early in the morning the next day. So his statement about doping controls and his help to the Girona's police allow me to think he can be clean. I hope I'm right.
Edited by Ildabaoth on 21-02-2011 22:19
Disclaimer: The above post reflects just the personal opinion of the author and not a fact. But if you read it, you must accept it as the ultimate truth.
|
| |
|
|
| Deadpool |
Posted on 21-02-2011 22:47
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 06-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ildabaoth wrote:
I tend not to believe than an elite cyclist like Tondo can be so good without doping. However, in his case there isn't just his help to uncover the doping ring in Girona. As far as I know, he is one of the few top cyclists who don't disagree about allowing doping controls 24 hours. You know that a lot of drugs can be used because their window detection time is less than 8 hours, just enough to use them by night and not producing a positive early in the morning the next day. So his statement about doping controls and his help to the Girona's police allow me to think he can be clean. I hope I'm right.
I disagree. Tondo is the exact sort of rider who I can see being clean. He is obviously very naturally talented, and seems like the type of rider who lacks that little boost he needs to be near the top, which could very well be drugs. Two other examples of this are Linus Gerdemann and Damiano Cunego. Both probably doped in the past (when they won a lot), but nowadays they seem to be lacking something compared to the top riders, quite possibly PED's. |
| |
|
|
| Ildabaoth |
Posted on 21-02-2011 23:05
|
Domestique
Posts: 695
Joined: 22-03-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Deadpool wrote:
Ildabaoth wrote:
I tend not to believe than an elite cyclist like Tondo can be so good without doping. However, in his case there isn't just his help to uncover the doping ring in Girona. As far as I know, he is one of the few top cyclists who don't disagree about allowing doping controls 24 hours. You know that a lot of drugs can be used because their window detection time is less than 8 hours, just enough to use them by night and not producing a positive early in the morning the next day. So his statement about doping controls and his help to the Girona's police allow me to think he can be clean. I hope I'm right.
I disagree. Tondo is the exact sort of rider who I can see being clean. He is obviously very naturally talented, and seems like the type of rider who lacks that little boost he needs to be near the top, which could very well be drugs. Two other examples of this are Linus Gerdemann and Damiano Cunego. Both probably doped in the past (when they won a lot), but nowadays they seem to be lacking something compared to the top riders, quite possibly PED's.
errr... I disagree with you disagreeing. That's what I was saying: his statement about doping controls and doping in general allow me to think he is clean. 
Disclaimer: The above post reflects just the personal opinion of the author and not a fact. But if you read it, you must accept it as the ultimate truth.
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 20:23
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Deadpool |
Posted on 22-02-2011 00:29
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 06-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ildabaoth wrote:
Deadpool wrote:
Ildabaoth wrote:
I tend not to believe than an elite cyclist like Tondo can be so good without doping. However, in his case there isn't just his help to uncover the doping ring in Girona. As far as I know, he is one of the few top cyclists who don't disagree about allowing doping controls 24 hours. You know that a lot of drugs can be used because their window detection time is less than 8 hours, just enough to use them by night and not producing a positive early in the morning the next day. So his statement about doping controls and his help to the Girona's police allow me to think he can be clean. I hope I'm right.
I disagree. Tondo is the exact sort of rider who I can see being clean. He is obviously very naturally talented, and seems like the type of rider who lacks that little boost he needs to be near the top, which could very well be drugs. Two other examples of this are Linus Gerdemann and Damiano Cunego. Both probably doped in the past (when they won a lot), but nowadays they seem to be lacking something compared to the top riders, quite possibly PED's.
errr... I disagree with you disagreeing. That's what I was saying: his statement about doping controls and doping in general allow me to think he is clean.
I should have just quoted your first sentence. It was a more general statement, but I do understand your disagreement with my disagreement is to the general statement and not to the specific case.
I hereby apologize for the preceding sentence.
Edited by Deadpool on 22-02-2011 00:29
|
| |
|
|
| dueceone |
Posted on 22-02-2011 02:09
|
Amateur
Posts: 17
Joined: 01-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Deadpool wrote:
There is a really interesting article by Leonard Zinn right now on Velonews. Talking about all the contributions Lance (and the companies that sponsored him) made to the technical side of cycling. Reason it is interesting is because about 98% of the innovations that are attributed to him either a) have nothing to do with him, or b) were first pushed for by Greg Lemond (e.g. stock Carbon frames).
Apparently Velonews needs to get in its last little bit of Lance grovelling.
Wow... hater much? You can hate Lance all you want, think he sold out, doped, whatever... If you honestly think that he didn't exponentially raise the profile of cycling and directly contribute to the technology we have available today you've had your head in the sand for a decade. His 1994 attack on the Mur de Huy was hard as shit, tactics and power. His domination of the Tour is flat out legendary. His combacks may have become tiresome but even at his age; 2nd at the Tour of Gila, 3rd TdF, cushed everyone and set a new record at the Leadville, 2nd Tour de Suisse, 3rd Tour de Luxemborg, 7th at Vuelta a Murcia... Hell, most riders entire careers don't stack up to his recent 'failed' unretirement. His ability to bring dollars and sponsorship to the sport is unparalleled. Hell companies like Shimano, who develop their own tech for things like pedals, licensed tech from other companies so that they could create products for Lance to ride. Lance posts a tweet and 4000 people turn out for a group ride.
Hate the man all you want but to disregard his contribution to the sport is as absurd as discounting what mean like Coppi or Merckx did before him. |
| |
|
|
| dueceone |
Posted on 22-02-2011 02:13
|
Amateur
Posts: 17
Joined: 01-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
I don't know where he's from but Sagan is hard as nails, that kids the next Phillipe Gilbert! |
| |
|
|
| dueceone |
Posted on 22-02-2011 02:30
|
Amateur
Posts: 17
Joined: 01-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Aquarius wrote:
roturn wrote:
A doping ring was detected in Girona, Spain. Seven people were detained. Except of the former Kelme rider Jordi Riera none of them is an active rider. A lot of stuff like EPO, growth hormones, Nandrolon and good old Clenbuterol were found. The stuff was supposed to be from Portugal and Andorra.
The information came from an anonymous rider, who was offered dope via email. What ? Is clenbuterol a product commonly used for doping these days ? I thought it was only used on cattle ? 
I can't speak to how common it is, though I think Clenbutador says enough about that... As for being used on cattle alone, it's probably most commonly found in asthma medication. It acts as a bronchiodilator and increases both aerobic capacity and o2 transport. It also increases the bodies ability to metabolize fat. That said, it also increases blood pressure and increases the likliehood of heart attacks and strokes.
With all that out, the best application for it in terms of doping use is as an off season training stimulant. It's fairly short lived in the body but produces relatively long lasting stimulant effects which would help riders getting down to 'racing weight' as well as an increase in training capacity. The 'baseline' at which the UCI test for it is also fairly high, which is why so much was made of that Cologne lab being able to test so far below that basline... people suddenly didn't have all the leeway they thought they had. The current thinking is that most of the riders who are getting popped for C are actually getting caught doping with stored blood from off season draws when they were using but thought it had been fully metabolized. They reinject the stoored blood never realizing it was still contaminated. That's why there was so much discussion about the presence of plasticizers in AC's blood and the fact that three days after his 'steak dinner' the level spiked to it's highest reading. Were it really a contaminated steak, the level would've tapered (and almost surely been gone after one day) and never begun to rise again.
Anyway, until the UCI has the guts to stand up and drop a rider like Contador it's a moot point... It'll just be a neverending cat and mouse game of doping tech vs detection tech with the riders making the most money being able to afford going undetected the longest. You come off a two year suspension like Ricco and you're storing blood in the back of your fridge.. you come off back to back Tour wins and you're paying doctors to do all the work for you and have the Spanish PM going to bat for you. If Ricco was coming off back to back Tour wins and Contador was a young up and commer with just a few stage wins to his credit, you can bet their roles would be reversed. It's just sad that the UCI chooses to back money & fame over taking a true stand against dopers. I mean really, how many Grand Tour winners do you think would have to get a lifetime ban before the rest of the field realized the UCI meant business and cleaned up real quick? |
| |
|
|
| valverde321 |
Posted on 22-02-2011 03:12
|
World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
|
dueceone wrote:
Deadpool wrote:
There is a really interesting article by Leonard Zinn right now on Velonews. Talking about all the contributions Lance (and the companies that sponsored him) made to the technical side of cycling. Reason it is interesting is because about 98% of the innovations that are attributed to him either a) have nothing to do with him, or b) were first pushed for by Greg Lemond (e.g. stock Carbon frames).
Apparently Velonews needs to get in its last little bit of Lance grovelling.
Wow... hater much? You can hate Lance all you want, think he sold out, doped, whatever... If you honestly think that he didn't exponentially raise the profile of cycling and directly contribute to the technology we have available today you've had your head in the sand for a decade. His 1994 attack on the Mur de Huy was hard as shit, tactics and power. His domination of the Tour is flat out legendary. His combacks may have become tiresome but even at his age; 2nd at the Tour of Gila, 3rd TdF, cushed everyone and set a new record at the Leadville, 2nd Tour de Suisse, 3rd Tour de Luxemborg, 7th at Vuelta a Murcia... Hell, most riders entire careers don't stack up to his recent 'failed' unretirement. His ability to bring dollars and sponsorship to the sport is unparalleled. Hell companies like Shimano, who develop their own tech for things like pedals, licensed tech from other companies so that they could create products for Lance to ride. Lance posts a tweet and 4000 people turn out for a group ride.
Hate the man all you want but to disregard his contribution to the sport is as absurd as discounting what mean like Coppi or Merckx did before him.
Um it was an article I believe, and I don't think Deadpool "hates" Armstrong simply because Lance is from the same country as him. And I'm pretty sure the part about the Carbon Stock Frames is true.
I don't know where he's from but Sagan is hard as nails, that kids the next Phillipe Gilbert!
I'd call him the next Bettini myself (and even that might be a stretch) but he could just end up being the next big doping scandal.
|
| |
|
|
| dueceone |
Posted on 22-02-2011 03:16
|
Amateur
Posts: 17
Joined: 01-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
valverde321 wrote:
Um it was an article I believe, and I don't think Deadpool "hates" Armstrong simply because Lance is from the same country as him. And I'm pretty sure the part about the Carbon Stock Frames is true.
I don't know where he's from but Sagan is hard as nails, that kids the next Phillipe Gilbert!
I'd call him the next Bettini myself (and even that might be a stretch) but he could just end up being the next big doping scandal.
Apologies if I went overboard, the part about carbon frames is somewhat true but it was Lance's pull that made it reality. I read the same article and it was definately pro-Lance but I think the guys earned his praise regardless of whether he's a prick or whatever else. It sounded like another Lance hater but, if that's not the case, my bad.
I'd worry about Sagan but he's been doing it this way for a long time... Dude showed up to XC National Champs literally riding his sister's 'Huffy' and destroyed the field on a department store POS. Dude is legit... Not saying he'll never get popped for something, hell even the Merckx got popped for doping, but he's definately a bona fide hardman! |
| |
|
|
| jacknic |
Posted on 22-02-2011 09:05
|
Domestique
Posts: 613
Joined: 19-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Has this been mentioned?
According to Danish newspaper Politiken, there is now a test for blood doping ready for use at the skiing world cup. Our good friend Rasmus Damsgaard helped develope it.
(Link in danish: https://politiken.dk/sport/ECE1202448/...loddoping/)
Now flaunting my very first avatar...
|
| |
|
|
| jacknic |
Posted on 22-02-2011 09:23
|
Domestique
Posts: 613
Joined: 19-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
It's never funny when a rider is tested positive. 
Vaughters is right about the connecting the dots thing. This method is used and abused way too much in the cycling communities. I've been saying this for a while, though not as eloquently.
Now flaunting my very first avatar...
|
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 22-02-2011 09:36
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
dueceone wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
roturn wrote:
A doping ring was detected in Girona, Spain. Seven people were detained. Except of the former Kelme rider Jordi Riera none of them is an active rider. A lot of stuff like EPO, growth hormones, Nandrolon and good old Clenbuterol were found. The stuff was supposed to be from Portugal and Andorra.
The information came from an anonymous rider, who was offered dope via email. What ? Is clenbuterol a product commonly used for doping these days ? I thought it was only used on cattle ?
Words
Aqua was being ironic
On the Armstrong subject: As Valverde says, I think he's mainly referring to the thing about carbon frames. I didn't read the article itself, but I have seen several blogs and comments comment on the subject. According to them, Armstrong had nothing to do with the introduction of carbon frames.
(One example: https://inrng.com/?p=1219) |
| |
|
