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Ideas for 2012
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| Smowz |
Posted on 31-01-2011 12:20
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It depends what you mean by overcrowded mb.
Personally I would prefer the game to be a little more about what your best rider does in each race as opposed to what your 2nd and 3rd best riders do.
If a race has 5 to 9 teams in - where your best rider comes becomes less relavent. Hell you could win the race by leading from start to finish - but then you get less points than a guy who stacks up a load of points from having 3 or 4 guys in the top 15, a mountain jersey and a couple of guys in the youth rankings.
If your team manages to get 3 or 4 guys in the top 15 and there are a hundred riders in the race great you deserve a decent points haul. If your team gets 3 or 4 riders into the top 15 and there are 35 to 60 riders in the race it is less of an achievement and you have been lucky due to the lack of selection in that race.
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 31-01-2011 12:32
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I agree, however your suggestion would mean that plenty of C1 races would be oversubscribed, leading to much more work on everyone ranking their C1 races etc.
I agree that something like Luxenbourg was a boon for the teams who entered, however that may well still happen for some races, as not everything will be equally popular. That is part of the management aspect, judging what races will get you the most points, and the people who do it best deserve to get promoted.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 31-01-2011 12:40
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Smowz wrote:
A couple of thoughts I had which have been raised before by Heine amongst others was to tackle the the few teams in a race issue:
I think a couple of soft changes:
1) Increase the squads to 32 teams (currently 29)
2) Increase the race days up to 160 per team
3) Take a couple of races out (whilst maintaining a balance).
1. Depends on how many CT teams we end up with after disbandments, and then the quality of applicants.
2/3. My thoughts were increasing the race days per team - possibly higher than that, it would require a bit of playing with number to figure out the best way - but keeping a similar amount of races.
This season most CT teams have a number of riders with a load of race days spare, and theres nothing wrong with CT races having more teams in them
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 31-01-2011 12:47
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mb2612 wrote:
I agree, however your suggestion would mean that plenty of C1 races would be oversubscribed, leading to much more work on everyone ranking their C1 races etc.
In 2 seasons, no C1 race has ever come close to being completely overscribed - remember that I can fit in up to 24 teams.
Besides, if that was the case its simple. First come, first served.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 31-01-2011 16:45
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A possible increase in points for the winner/podium finishers. But maybe that's just my feeling on the importance of a win against consistency. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 31-01-2011 17:01
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Well I like the fact that teams without a real star can compete. Look at my team for instance. I would've never achieved anything near a top 3 with those riders otherwise. And that would also be another reason for top riders to go even higher in wages, and a manager who have Spilak, Boonen, Bennati, Cunego and so on would never in a million year let them go.
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 07-02-2011 03:32
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Probably been mentioned before, but what about reverse wild-cards. Let each PT team ride one CT race a year if they want to. The fact that the points wouldn't count but the race days would would make it so that only lesser name riders would probably start the race for said teams, and it would be cool to see, say, Jack Wolfskin in Drenthe or something like that. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 07:33
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Agreed, but it would be rather pointless for the CT if the PT teams send a horrible team, that will be deadlast. The CT teams send their very best riders to the PT, so the PT should also send a decent team the other way I think.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 11:38
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I'm with SotD on this one. If the CT teams came and take points from the PT squads, then the PT teams should also send a good line - up to the CT races.
But I remember SN saying that this thing PT teams riding in CT as reverse wild-cards will never happen.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 20:17
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 11:53
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Myself and SN have had discussions about it, and may have come to an agreeable solution. I'll wait for further clarification on the matter before posting what I "think" we agreed would be a rough guideline on the matter.
Also we may have come to agreement on short-term loans, so a rider from a CT team may ride in the Pro Tour for another team for a race or two, and likewise in reverse.
Please wait for an actual announcement on those two points from SN rather than take my word for it, but ideas are being discussed so keep 'em coming. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 12:15
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Also we may have come to agreement on short-term loans, so a rider from a CT team may ride in the Pro Tour for another team for a race or two, and likewise in reverse.
I would be very very much against this! Riders already progress at the speed of lightening, so every input on how to increase them even faster is negative imo. We already have tons of good riders, why not make it worth the wait when you develop a talent? I like the fact that you have to decide whether or not the talent is best of being in PT or CT, or if you could use him better in your own plans. A rider like Madrazo and Tenorio could've done wonders for Santander, but he took a decision regarding the future of the team. I definately would be against the fact that he could chose between the best of each world, and let them help him promote, but also increase enough to make the PT a playground next season. It would take out the element of tactical knowledge, beyond one season away.
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 12:25
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A grand tour would give a level 3 rider all of 42 experience. Madrazo and Tenorio, having both spent a season in the PT have been maxed.
Not to mention that for Madrazo/Tenorio to have ridden a GT if they'd stayed in the CT, they'd have spent 21 of their race day allotment in doing so to gain the experience. Therefore hindering Santanders chances of getting lots of points off them.
Another example, if Taaramae is to stay in the CT next season (which I doubt), if someone wanted to max him, without using Wildcard races, and loaned him out for a race, as he only has an allotment of 30something race days, it's a big chunk out of his amount. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 12:46
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If this thing with the short term loans passes, will the normal loans still be available? (even though I don't see why they wouldn't, I had to ask  )
If the normal loans would still be in, I see this as a great idea, with people being able to chose which suits them best - a full loan or a short one.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:11
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How hypocritical for SotD to complain about fast increases - when he is the one who took on various loans to max them up - and he is the one to blame for Madrazo's exceedingly fast rise.
Rjc, a Grand Tour at level 3 gives 21 xp. It only gives 42 xp at level 4.
Short term loans would cost race days yes - and could be a fairer opportunity for CT teams. As it stands, once a rider of theirs gets to level 3 or 4, their only real option is to loan them out and then not got to benefit from owning that rider, and possibly paying the wage of that rider, for one or 2 seasons. The cost of race days does mean the increase would be slower than if loaned to PT, but it provides another option.
Normal loans would of course remain alex
And PT teams in CT. I disagree with SotD's idea that PT should send decent squads, because a 'decent' PT squad will be on par with many CT teams. PT teams are better than CT, so they should be the ones with an advantage against the wildcards - the 1 million gap in salary cap is quite a big gap afterall.
But as far as Im concerned, its quite a simple solution. For PT teams to ride in CT races, it must cost the riders involved race days.
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:14
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But why would anyone want to help maxing out riders they only can have in 1 race? Well besides the obvious of riders with huge potentials like Taaramae?
Most of the riders I have loaned for this season are capable of helping me leadout a sprint or so, occassionally, but if they were to ride the Tour de France to help a competitor max out the rider, while he was my 8th or 9th selected rider, I don't think I would want that...
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:14
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Exactly what I was saying. A PT manager probably wouldn't do it if he didn't want to see his team do well (i.e. he would send a decent team), but also probably wouldn't send his top riders because of the race day costs. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:19
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How hypocritical for SotD to complain about fast increases - when he is the one who took on various loans to max them up - and he is the one to blame for Madrazo's exceedingly fast rise.
How is that hypocritical? It is a rule implemented in the game, and I don't think it's a bad rule, because I have the rider the entire season... I sure as hell wouldn't have taken him as a helper in the Giro or so as for the only purpose of letting him increase, while he wouldn't score me any points.
But like I said I can understand why some people wanted to loan a rider like him, because he could actually be team leader, but who would want to loan Michael Vingerling for a race? They would gain absolutely nothing from that except helping a competitor...
Also I really don't like that riders can jump around from team to another. IRL cyclingworld you hardly ever see the strongest CT riders swop to Bouygous to be leader in the TdF. Why should we implement it here then? The best riders for the race is given a wild card, to improve the xp. Why should the other managers do it for them?
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:21
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It could be worth it the other way though, if a PT manager signs a potential 1 rider, a short term loan to the CT for the tour of America would move them up quickly.
Also, it's not worth it to do it for free, but if the choice is between your 72 mountain rider and someone else's, where you get paid to race them, why not. It's a small amount of money, and you are unlikely to lose points in the future because of it.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:23
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But why would anyone want to help maxing out riders they only can have in 1 race?
Maybe because you wouldn't have to pay his wage, which will be payed by the CT team since they have him for the rest of the season. So you could have a rider, that you are not paying, scoring points for you (since they are almost maxed out the riders should be able to score a more than decent amount of points).
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| SotD |
Posted on 07-02-2011 13:26
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Yeah Alex, but then we are again talking about topriders, at the CT level. I would gladly take all the biggest talents in the CT and max them out because they would score loads of points for me, but who would take a random guy who will take the place of one of your own domestiques? As I see it this will ONLY benefit the best talents, and what is the hurry to max them out? I think the game has a good flow with superstars waiting 2-3 seasons to get great. Why would we want to cut down a season?
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