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Evans leaves Lotto
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| Stijn_vranken |
Posted on 03-11-2009 08:48
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even back then Sanchez would never have been a domestique
and like Deda says
th GT's are only 3 times 3 weeks during an entire year of racing.
prevent hangovers --> stay drunk
pozzato, basically the most stupid cyclist around
RIP WW. Gone but not forgotten
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| facmanpob |
Posted on 03-11-2009 11:39
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Stijn_vranken wrote:
th GT's are only 3 times 3 weeks during an entire year of racing.
Tell that to Lance Armstrong 
I really think that Evans has looked at the Tour route for next year, and said to himself 'I've got no chance unless they magically insert another 50km of Time Trialling', and decided to cash in with a nice fat paycheck at BMC. They'll let him parade the rainbow jersey at whatever races he chooses, and he can be team leader for the Ardennes and Autumn classics, and probably do very well in them. |
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| Stijn_vranken |
Posted on 03-11-2009 11:45
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facmanpob wrote:
Stijn_vranken wrote:
th GT's are only 3 times 3 weeks during an entire year of racing.
Tell that to Lance Armstrong
I really think that Evans has looked at the Tour route for next year, and said to himself 'I've got no chance unless they magically insert another 50km of Time Trialling', and decided to cash in with a nice fat paycheck at BMC. They'll let him parade the rainbow jersey at whatever races he chooses, and he can be team leader for the Ardennes and Autumn classics, and probably do very well in them.
Armstrong has raced other races like RVV & others
do they even have a wilcard yet for AGR, Fléche Wallone, LBL ,Giro di Lombardia,...
or have they been allowed
I don't even know if they will get one
prevent hangovers --> stay drunk
pozzato, basically the most stupid cyclist around
RIP WW. Gone but not forgotten
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| Cordelier |
Posted on 03-11-2009 19:53
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CrueTrue wrote:
Are you saying that Andy Schleck (or Frank, for that matter) is a mediocre classics and stage race rider?
Mediocre in comparison to what they could be if they specialized, yes. The Classics aren't going to do anything to help Andy or Frank win the Tour - they just distract them from that. If they spent the spring training for Time Trials and using smaller races like Dauphiné Libéré, they'd be far better served when it came to the Tour.
Likewise if they wanted to specialize in Classics, then any Tour preparations they undertook would just be a distraction. Good Time Trials aren't going to help you much in Paris-Roubaix. |
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 03-11-2009 19:57
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Dumb Logic, great riders have been good in Hilly classics and stage races. (And i think you'll find it's not Only Merckx that was good at "everything"
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 03-11-2009 20:08
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Cordelier wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
Are you saying that Andy Schleck (or Frank, for that matter) is a mediocre classics and stage race rider?
Mediocre in comparison to what they could be if they specialized, yes. The Classics aren't going to do anything to help Andy or Frank win the Tour - they just distract them from that. If they spent the spring training for Time Trials and using smaller races like Dauphiné Libéré, they'd be far better served when it came to the Tour.
Likewise if they wanted to specialize in Classics, then any Tour preparations they undertook would just be a distraction. Good Time Trials aren't going to help you much in Paris-Roubaix.
So because of the fact that they are racing classics, they can't improve in other areas? Check the time trialling results for the Schlecks, and you'll probably notice that both of them did remarkable better in 2009 compared to 2008.
Besides, both of the Schlecks also need to improve their acceleration, a skill that's highly required in the hilly classics.
I know that you, as a major fan of Lance Armstrong, would prefer the riders to focus entirely, 100 % on the Tour. But let me remind you that there are other methods and other ways of preparing than just Armstrong's. Cycling would be quite boring if everyone followed your 'advice'. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 03-11-2009 20:17
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The Schlecks already have quite a snobbish attitude about only going for the Tour and little else. I can't stand that attitude. It really pisses me off.
So it goes without saying that I don't like people suggesting they should focus even less in other races.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 03-11-2009 20:30
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I think Andy and Frank will continue to focus on the races they are focusing on at the moment (ie Ardennes + Tour) for the next few years at least.
Only variation I can see is that one year Andy might have a serious go at the Giro/Tour at the expense of the Ardennes. Frank also might focus one year on the Worlds, which might involve a crack at the Vuelta.
Can't see them ever waking up and deciding the classics are not important. They are after all real cyclists.
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| Cordelier |
Posted on 04-11-2009 05:45
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CrueTrue wrote: I know that you, as a major fan of Lance Armstrong, would prefer the riders to focus entirely, 100 % on the Tour. But let me remind you that there are other methods and other ways of preparing than just Armstrong's. Cycling would be quite boring if everyone followed your 'advice'.
All the same, it's kind of hard to argue with 7 straight Yellow Jerseys, Crue. |
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| Stijn_vranken |
Posted on 04-11-2009 08:18
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Cordelier wrote:
CrueTrue wrote: I know that you, as a major fan of Lance Armstrong, would prefer the riders to focus entirely, 100 % on the Tour. But let me remind you that there are other methods and other ways of preparing than just Armstrong's. Cycling would be quite boring if everyone followed your 'advice'.
All the same, it's kind of hard to argue with 7 straight Yellow Jerseys, Crue.
though he'll never reach the level of merckx and alike
somebody made up a ranking.
i don't believe armstrong reached the top 10
Edited by Stijn_vranken on 04-11-2009 08:33
prevent hangovers --> stay drunk
pozzato, basically the most stupid cyclist around
RIP WW. Gone but not forgotten
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 04-11-2009 08:50
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Cordelier wrote:
CrueTrue wrote: I know that you, as a major fan of Lance Armstrong, would prefer the riders to focus entirely, 100 % on the Tour. But let me remind you that there are other methods and other ways of preparing than just Armstrong's. Cycling would be quite boring if everyone followed your 'advice'.
All the same, it's kind of hard to argue with 7 straight Yellow Jerseys, Crue.
I agree that his results are fantastic,
On the other hand, it's also hard to argue with five Tour-victories for a guy who also focused on other races (e.g. the Giro which he won twice).
It's difficult to have a debate about methods - the perfect build-up depends on the rider. For Lance Armstrong, it obviously worked for him to focus entirely on the Tour, for others, not so much. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 12:35
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| facmanpob |
Posted on 04-11-2009 09:35
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Don't forget Indurain - he won 7 grand tours same as Armstrong (5 x Tour, 2 x Giro), and had 3 other top 10 finishes in GTs in his career (of which 2 were podium placings). He also won 2 Dauphines, 2 Paris Nice, the Worlds ITT and Olympics, 3 Volta a Catalunyas, and the French Legion d'honneur! Can't argue with that Palmares! 
Moreover, you rarely hear a bad word said about Miguel Indurain as a person! |
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| Stijn_vranken |
Posted on 04-11-2009 09:59
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facmanpob wrote:
Don't forget Indurain - he won 7 grand tours same as Armstrong (5 x Tour, 2 x Giro), and had 3 other top 10 finishes in GTs in his career (of which 2 were podium placings). He also won 2 Dauphines, 2 Paris Nice, the Worlds ITT and Olympics, 3 Volta a Catalunyas, and the French Legion d'honneur! Can't argue with that Palmares!
Moreover, you rarely hear a bad word said about Miguel Indurain as a person!
Merckx can . he 's ranked number 1
prevent hangovers --> stay drunk
pozzato, basically the most stupid cyclist around
RIP WW. Gone but not forgotten
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 04-11-2009 10:39
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facmanpob wrote:
Don't forget Indurain - he won 7 grand tours same as Armstrong (5 x Tour, 2 x Giro), and had 3 other top 10 finishes in GTs in his career (of which 2 were podium placings). He also won 2 Dauphines, 2 Paris Nice, the Worlds ITT and Olympics, 3 Volta a Catalunyas, and the French Legion d'honneur! Can't argue with that Palmares!
Moreover, you rarely hear a bad word said about Miguel Indurain as a person!
Which is the guy I referred to in my post (without mentioning his name, though) |
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| schleck93 |
Posted on 04-11-2009 10:39
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Just kinda sad that Indurain got a bad renome after he retired as a boring rider, when he really wasn't, he jsut didn't have any interest in winning the mountain stages, still he put himself on the front on the last mountain and rode his pace to the top, and incredible pace even, and whover was with got to fight for the win.
One year he attacked solo 50 km out on a tour stage in the ardennes and won. No tour winner execpt Pantani has succede in that kind of attacks in recent years. (I rule Pereiro out here)
BenBarnes wrote:
Thor wears a live rattlesnake as a condom.
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| facmanpob |
Posted on 04-11-2009 12:43
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CrueTrue wrote:
Which is the guy I referred to in my post (without mentioning his name, though)
Just re-read your post! Doh! |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 04-11-2009 13:16
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facmanpob wrote:
Don't forget Indurain - he won 7 grand tours same as Armstrong (5 x Tour, 2 x Giro), and had 3 other top 10 finishes in GTs in his career (of which 2 were podium placings). He also won 2 Dauphines, 2 Paris Nice, the Worlds ITT and Olympics, 3 Volta a Catalunyas, and the French Legion d'honneur! Can't argue with that Palmares!
Moreover, you rarely hear a bad word said about Miguel Indurain as a person!
Well, Lance also won the world championships, the US national championships, San Sebastian, La Fleche Wallone, the Tour de Suisse and the Dauphine Libere twice. He also finished second in Liege-Bastogne-Liege once and second in the Classica San Sebastian. He also dominat
ed the tour dupont, back when that was the main US cycling event.
Lance was actually a VERY good 1-day racer prior to his cancer. But once he focused on winning the tour... that's all he focused on. It probably hurt his "overall" cycling resume with these point based rankings... but he knew that most average people following cycling view winning the Tour once as a bigger deal then winning the Giro or Vuelta or any big 1-day race like Liege or Roubaix 3-4 times.
Not many people in the US knew who Lance Armstrong was before he won the Tour... even though he had won the world championships, La Fleche Wallone and San Sebastian. |
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| Stijn_vranken |
Posted on 04-11-2009 14:52
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KurtinSC wrote:
facmanpob wrote:
Don't forget Indurain - he won 7 grand tours same as Armstrong (5 x Tour, 2 x Giro), and had 3 other top 10 finishes in GTs in his career (of which 2 were podium placings). He also won 2 Dauphines, 2 Paris Nice, the Worlds ITT and Olympics, 3 Volta a Catalunyas, and the French Legion d'honneur! Can't argue with that Palmares!
Moreover, you rarely hear a bad word said about Miguel Indurain as a person!
Well, Lance also won the world championships, the US national championships, San Sebastian, La Fleche Wallone, the Tour de Suisse and the Dauphine Libere twice. He also finished second in Liege-Bastogne-Liege once and second in the Classica San Sebastian. He also dominat
ed the tour dupont, back when that was the main US cycling event.
Lance was actually a VERY good 1-day racer prior to his cancer. But once he focused on winning the tour... that's all he focused on. It probably hurt his "overall" cycling resume with these point based rankings... but he knew that most average people following cycling view winning the Tour once as a bigger deal then winning the Giro or Vuelta or any big 1-day race like Liege or Roubaix 3-4 times.
Not many people in the US knew who Lance Armstrong was before he won the Tour... even though he had won the world championships, La Fleche Wallone and San Sebastian.
Personnally the tour the france has dropped a lot in my esteem over the last couple of years
Even the Giro & Vuelta have overtaken it.
and lets get one thing straight:
you can't compare a one-day superclassic like RVV,PB,LBL with a tour, its totally different in multiple ways
prevent hangovers --> stay drunk
pozzato, basically the most stupid cyclist around
RIP WW. Gone but not forgotten
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| Ildabaoth |
Posted on 04-11-2009 16:08
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This whole debate about Armstrong is useless. Specially because it doesn't matter his 7 tour wins, because most people don't like him because of him as an asshole, not because of his palmares.
That being said, and returning to the Evans' discussion, it is clear that over the economic issues, he wasn't happy at Silence. He knows he could probably have won a Tour hadn't it been for his lack of team and he knows it is too late right now. Even if it didn't look right or loyal, he didn't have a future there.
Disclaimer: The above post reflects just the personal opinion of the author and not a fact. But if you read it, you must accept it as the ultimate truth.
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| facmanpob |
Posted on 04-11-2009 16:13
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Just to clarify my earlier post about Indurain - I wasn't saying that Armstrong's record was any better or worse that Indurain's. I was commenting on the fact that a large number of people declare that 'Armstrong is the greatest Grand Tour rider ever', which I believe is nonsense, as Indurain's GT results are almost basically the equivalent!
@Ildabaoth - I agree with you about Evans - It was fairly obvious from some of his comments during the Tour that he wanted out - its just more in the spotlight because he had such a great end of season at the Vuelta and Worlds
Edited by facmanpob on 04-11-2009 16:26
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