issoisso wrote:
Anyway, Rabobank announce they've signed a few riders as a sprint train.
Wait, what?
No names yet though.
Almost certainly for Bos. Which could be interesting.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Deadpool wrote:
Sagan was what I was thinking as well, and I definitely agree on the TT, but I'm not so sure on the climbing. Unlike most sprinter types, his body doesn't seem naturally so thick. I definitely could see him slim down and gain some real strength on the climbs. I doubt he'd be GT material, but...Kelly??? I mean, he had some really good GT results as well, but those were kind of fluke-ish with the terrain. Great one-week stage racer, a good bet in any type of classic, and someone who has the capability to do a good GC result with a favorable course? Kind of like Moser, just trading Kelly's sprinting for Moser's TTing. Also, can we officially declare Francesco Moser winning the Giro the strangest thing that has ever happened in cycling? It's' just...bizarre...Of course, there is one way Sagan could win a bunch of GTs, get cancer. Seriously, young Lance and young Sagan aren't that different body type-wise. Might be difficult for him to do naturally, but if Sagan had the same opportunity to completely remake his body like Lance did, he might be able to manage it.
I said Jalabert because I was thinking sprinter with a good kick on the uphills, but yeah, probably not the best comparison, I'd just checked out his palmares, and he had some pretty good cobbles results as well...maybe I should have said De Vlaeminck.
I agree with most of that, but on Moser:
Moser could climb pretty well. Think Wiggins 2009 level of climbing or so. With a Cancellara like ability on cobbles and TTs, and a good sprint. Then in 1984 he started working with Conconi's revolutionary blood doping methods and suddenly he was flying like never before.
Plus, the Giro was mostly flat and the biggest mountain day was cancelled so Moser would win the Giro.
EDIT: Also, Fignon had a major bonk in one of the few mountain stages due to eating something - can't remember what - that he found out then that he was allergic to or something.
I always thought of Moser as a mediocre at best climber. He did have a fair number of good Giro results (looks like he had 2-3 other podiums), but again, he's arguably the greatest TTer ever (what, him, Indurain, Antequil, Cancellara...something like that), and the mid 80s weren't exactly filled with quality GC riders (seemed like you either had great climbers who couldn't do anything else, read, Colombians, or riders who were good in everything but not great at anything, like Roche). I mean, I wasn't there, and I can't say I've sat around and watched mid-80s GT tapes (for obvious reasons), but he's always described as a poor man's Indurain in the mountains. A huge workhorse who wasn't naturally that good a climber but was so goddamn strong it didn't really matter. And that's what I meant, that he won the Giro because of a favorable course. Didn't know that about Fignon though.
Turned out to be the next Moncassin, at best.
Sagan is heavier, but he seems to be able to do just anything on a bike, so, maybe ?
Sagan will never climb mountains anywhere near as well as Jalabert, much less win a GT like Jaja. And he'll never TT anywhere near as well as Jalabert in a distance above 10kms so he'll never be TT world champion like Jaja.
Anyway, Rabobank announce they've signed a few riders as a sprint train. Wtf.
Also, Favilli to Lampre. Good signing.
I hope he will never be doped as hell, like Jaja was
Deadpool wrote:
I always thought of Moser as a mediocre at best climber. He did have a fair number of good Giro results (looks like he had 2-3 other podiums), but again, he's arguably the greatest TTer ever (what, him, Indurain, Antequil, Cancellara...something like that),(...).
I'd name Roger Rivière as potentially the greatest TTist ever. He beat the shit out of Anquetil (and everyone else in that time by the way) in ITT, pursuits, etc.
Deadpool wrote:
I always thought of Moser as a mediocre at best climber. He did have a fair number of good Giro results (looks like he had 2-3 other podiums), but again, he's arguably the greatest TTer ever (what, him, Indurain, Antequil, Cancellara...something like that),(...).
I'd name Roger Rivière as potentially the greatest TTist ever. He beat the shit out of Anquetil (and everyone else in that time by the way) in ITT, pursuits, etc.
He was the one that broke his back after he missed a corner on a descent in the Tour, right?
Deadpool wrote:
I always thought of Moser as a mediocre at best climber. He did have a fair number of good Giro results (looks like he had 2-3 other podiums), but again, he's arguably the greatest TTer ever (what, him, Indurain, Antequil, Cancellara...something like that),(...).
I'd name Roger Rivière as potentially the greatest TTist ever. He beat the shit out of Anquetil (and everyone else in that time by the way) in ITT, pursuits, etc.
He was the one that broke his back after he missed a corner on a descent in the Tour, right?
He is. He was the reigning champion of pursuit (3 years in a row), and beat Anquetil in all TDF ITT the year before (and in other occasions too I believe).
He also beat the hour record without any special preparation, and when he tried more seriously he got a flat with 15 minutes to go, yet he still beat it by 1 km. It took 8 years to Anquetil to beat it by 150 m (and he was doped up). Rivière's flat cost him something like 750 or 800 m I read.
He was only 24 when he crashed.
Jacques Anquetil won the Giro in May, beating Gastone Nencini by only 28 seconds. Anquetil not surprisingly took the lead in the Giro for good in the stage 14 68-kilometer time trial. Charly Gaul had tried to find his usual rabbit in the hat when he won the penultimate stage that took the race over the Gavia pass. But for the master climber of his age, it was too little too late. He finished the Giro in third place, almost 4 minutes behind Master Jacques. Neither Gaul nor Anquetil chose to ride the Tour that year. It's thought that Anquetil didn't want a repeat of 1959 with the loyalties of the team split between Roger Rivière and himself. The rivalry between the 2 had ended in disgrace for Rivière and Anquetil when they let Bahamontes win the Tour.
The major challenge to the French would have to come from the Italians. Nencini was now at the apogee of his career. Nino Defilippis, Ercole Baldini, and Arnaldo Pambianco were great riders in their own right and as part of a team they were doubly formidable.
The British again had a team in the Tour. Most notably, this was the first Tour start for Tommy Simpson (the year before Simpson had moved from England, where road racing was almost unknown, to France). The move worked well for the ambitious Englishman. He won 7 minor races and came in fourth in the World Road Championships held in Zandvoort, Holland that year. Simpson was a man on the way up.
The Belgians had no shortage of horsepower. Jan Adriaenssens was third in 1956, wearing the Yellow Jersey for 3 days that year. In 1959 he had slipped to seventh, but was only 10 minutes behind the winner, Bahamontes.
The 1960 Tour went counter-clockwise, Pyrenees first. Continuing a long, although somewhat unsteady trend that began after the mammoth 5,745 kilometer 1926 Tour, the 1960 Tour was about 200 kilometers shorter than the year before. The 4,173 kilometers were divided into 22 stages (opening day was a split stage) giving an average stage length of 189 kilometers. This was roughly 20 kilometers longer than those of today but about 30 kilometers shorter than an average stage in 1950.
Belgian Julien Schepens won the first stage's 14-man sprint into Brussels. Nencini and Anglade, the alert veterans, were in this lead bunch while Rivière was in the first chase group, over 2 minutes back. It was the 27.8-kilometer individual time trial that afternoon that was really interesting. Rivière won, beating Nencini by 32 seconds and Anglade by 48. Because Nencini was one of the heads-up riders in the first stage, he donned the Yellow Jersey with Anglade second, 31 seconds back. Rivière was sitting in seventh place, 92 seconds behind. Rivière had the power to win races but he lacked the tactical know-how and brains to win. As Desgrange had said over a half-century before, cycle racing is a head and legs sport.
The next day 1959 winner Federico Bahamontes became ill and had to abandon.
The problems with the French team started on stage 4, but it would take a few days for the effects to become manifest. 6 riders including 2 French team members, Anglade and Graczyk along with Baldini and old Wim van Est made a successful break and beat a compact field to the finish by 6 minutes, 19 seconds. After coming so close in 1959, for the first time in his career Anglade was in Yellow. Rivière was in tenth place now, almost 8 minutes behind his teammate. Having come in second the year before and now in Yellow, one should have assumed that Anglade would at least be accorded a high level of protection within his own team.
It all came apart for the French on the sixth stage, 191 kilometers from St. Malo to Lorient in Brittany. Rivière attacked (one account says the move was initiated by Nencini) and took Nencini and the extremely capable Jan Adriaenssens with him. Alarmed, Anglade talked to team manager Marcel Bidot and asked Bidot to have Rivière stop his attack which was taking along 2 powerful riders who were fully capable of winning the Tour. Rivière ignored Bidot's pleas and powered on. He hated the easy-to-dislike Anglade (Anglade's nickname was "Napoleon" ) and had no intention of doing him any favors. The carnage from the effort was complete. The main pack containing Anglade finished 14 minutes, 40 seconds behind the Rivière group. Adriaenssens was now the Yellow Jersey with Nencini at 72 seconds and Rivière at 2 minutes, 14 seconds.
Anglade himself was an excellent descender. He and Nencini had a personal race, man-to-man, down a mountain in Italy in 1959 to settle the question of who was the best living descender. Anglade beat the dangerous Italian but he had the measure of the man and had seen Rivière descend and come close to disaster the previous year as well. Anglade knew what he was talking about.
As the Tour traveled south down the western face of France Adriaenssens kept his lead. After stage 9 and at the foot of the Pyrenees, the standings stood thus:
1. Jean Adriaenssens
2. Gastone Nencini @ 1 minute 12 seconds
3. Roger Rivière @ 2 minutes 14 seconds
4. Jean Graczyk @ 2 minutes 15 seconds
Stage 10 had the Soulor and the Aubisque climbs. Nencini decided that this would be a good time to dispatch Rivière but the young Frenchman hung on grimly. When he was dropped on the first climb Rivière regained contact on of all places, the descent of the Aubisque. Rivière won the stage with Nencini second, the 2 riders finishing with the same time. Nencini was now the Yellow Jersey with Rivière at 32 seconds and Adriaenssens at 79 seconds. Fourth place Jozef Planckaert was at a distant 7 minutes, 8 seconds. It looked like a 3-way race from here on.
Rivière's plan was exactly as Anglade had described. He would stick like glue to Nencini through the road stages and beat him in the stage 19 time trial. At that point he was a 3-time world pursuit champion, had set the world hour record in 1957, and bettered it again in 1958. His Hour Record was so good that it stood for a decade. Rivière could be forgiven if he thought that he could easily take back a few seconds in an 83-kilometer time trial.
The next day, stage 11, had the Tourmalet, Aspin and the Peyresourde. On the final climb Nencini attacked and increased his lead over Rivière by a minute.
Stage 11, Nencini alone on the Peyresourde
The fourteenth stage took the Tour through the Cevannes, the mountains just south of the Massif Central. On the first of the day's 3 rated climbs, Nencini was the fourth man over the Col du Perjuret with Rivière glued to his wheel. Nencini dropped like a rock down the very technical descent. Rivière was unable to stay with Nencini and went off the side of the mountain and into a ravine. His back was broken from the fall. Rivière was never to ride a bike again. At first he blamed his mechanics but it turned out that Rivière was so doped with painkillers that he couldn't manage his downhill speed. By the early 1960s many riders were using a horrible cocktail of drugs: amphetamines as a stimulant, Palfium to kill the pain in their legs and then sleeping pills at night to counteract the amphetamines. It is generally thought that the Palfium caused his crash by making it impossible for Rivière to feel his brake levers.
After the tragic events of stage 14, here were the standings:
1. Gastone Nencini
2. Jan Adriaenssens @ 2 minutes 25 seconds
3. Graziano Battistini @ 6 minutes
4. Jozef Planckaert @ 8 minutes 14 seconds
Through the Alps the relative positions stayed stable. Anglade tried to shake things up but Nencini never faltered. In fact, the Italians improved their position when Battistini won stage 16 which went over the Vars and Izoard. He was now within about a minute of Adriaenssens and could probably smell second place.
Battistini secured second place the next day when he got into the winning group (which included Nencini and Anglade) of the seventeenth stage that went over the Lautaret, the Luitel and the Granier.
All that was left to overcome was the stage 19 time trial. Run from Pontarlier to Besançon it was almost as if someone had designed the 83-kilometer downhill course just for Nencini. He didn't win and he didn't need to. He had a solid 4 minutes on his teammate Battistini and almost 6 on Adriaenssens going into the time trial. His performance that day increased his lead over both.
Stage 12: The peloton crosses the Causse du Larzac, one of a series of limestone plateaus in the Massif Central.
From there, it was an easy 2 stages to Paris. All that Anglade had predicted after stage 6 had come to pass. Rivière, through his amateurish, grudge-driven riding had ended up handing the Tour to Nencini. That was 2 years in a row that Rivière's selfish riding had probably cost his team the victory. Nencini was a gracious winner. He gave the bouquet of flowers he earned for winning the Tour to the French team manager, Marcel Bidot to give to Rivière. It was a nice gesture to the man who had done the most, however inadvertently, to give Nencini his victory. The highest placed Frenchman was Raymond Mastrotto, sixth place at 16 minutes, 12 seconds. Ma foi!
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
I'm wondering who Rabobank will sign next year. I know they signed Nordhaug, but are there more rumours of good signings?
I've read Bobridge so far, but maybe someone could list some names for me?