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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 16-06-2014 10:54
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Team Leader
Posts: 6690
Joined: 11-10-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
I mean, in the past we had guys like Andy Schleck, Gesink or Hushovd getting a crapload of bad results before they got a stat reduction, and Van Den Broeck gets it after he has 1 crash that ruins his season. As I said a few pages before, there's just no consistency on this matter.
Guys like Gesink, Schleck & Hushovd are already on 74 to 76 in their primary stats for quite some time, so that's not a proper argument.
Edited by admirschleck on 16-06-2014 10:56
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| atlanta |
Posted on 16-06-2014 10:59
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1220
Joined: 31-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
atlanta wrote:
Spoiler Ollfardh wrote:
I don't follow that logic, you're saying he didn't decline from since 2012, yet his stats should go down (quite a bit)?
In my opinion, an injured/crashed out rider should not go down in stats unless he's at an age where natural decline comes in anyway. Did Cancellara get a stat reduction after he missed the 2013 classics? For Van den Broeck it's even more extreme, as the only race he focuses on is the Tour. I think it's only fair to keep him on his 2010-2012 level unless he proves otherwise this Tour. Based on the Dauphiné, you could even say his results are slightly improving from the previous years, as (I think) he never got a 3rd in the GC yet. I want to stress I'm only talking about the Mountain stat. So if you compare GC results to guys like Uran, who has a far better TT, hill, acceleration etc, you should take that into account as well.
I mean, in the past we had guys like Andy Schleck, Gesink or Hushovd getting a crapload of bad results before they got a stat reduction, and Van Den Broeck gets it after he has 1 crash that ruins his season. As I said a few pages before, there's just no consistency on this matter.
Give Uran 79 aswell why you're at it, also give Talansky 80 he outclimbed JVdb  . Drop Nibali to 80 but JVdB is not 79 imho. He still get 5th in Giro for me and top 6 in TDF.
Any ideas on Yates people? I think he should get 7 potential. No neo - pro does this well unless you're Sagan.
Mathieu Van Der Poel does his thing pretty impressive, too
Yates 7 potential seems fair, though!
Talansky 80 MO isn't 
Sorry for this question if it sounds sily but has Vander Poel been good on the road?. I assumed he was just racing CX. But yes man he is a beast in pcm. He had 82 hill with 85 End . |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 16-06-2014 11:01
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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atlanta wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
atlanta wrote:
Spoiler Ollfardh wrote:
I don't follow that logic, you're saying he didn't decline from since 2012, yet his stats should go down (quite a bit)?
In my opinion, an injured/crashed out rider should not go down in stats unless he's at an age where natural decline comes in anyway. Did Cancellara get a stat reduction after he missed the 2013 classics? For Van den Broeck it's even more extreme, as the only race he focuses on is the Tour. I think it's only fair to keep him on his 2010-2012 level unless he proves otherwise this Tour. Based on the Dauphiné, you could even say his results are slightly improving from the previous years, as (I think) he never got a 3rd in the GC yet. I want to stress I'm only talking about the Mountain stat. So if you compare GC results to guys like Uran, who has a far better TT, hill, acceleration etc, you should take that into account as well.
I mean, in the past we had guys like Andy Schleck, Gesink or Hushovd getting a crapload of bad results before they got a stat reduction, and Van Den Broeck gets it after he has 1 crash that ruins his season. As I said a few pages before, there's just no consistency on this matter.
Give Uran 79 aswell why you're at it, also give Talansky 80 he outclimbed JVdb . Drop Nibali to 80 but JVdB is not 79 imho. He still get 5th in Giro for me and top 6 in TDF.
Any ideas on Yates people? I think he should get 7 potential. No neo - pro does this well unless you're Sagan.
Mathieu Van Der Poel does his thing pretty impressive, too
Yates 7 potential seems fair, though!
Talansky 80 MO isn't
Sorry for this question if it sounds sily but has Vander Poel been good on the road?. I assumed he was just racing CX. But yes man he is a beast in pcm. He had 82 hill with 85 End .
Yesterday he just won Ronde van Limburg, he's only 19 years old.
Check his profile
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...n_Der_Poel
Also worth checking are his 2013 results. Impressive for a CX rider  |
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 16-06-2014 11:01
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Team Leader
Posts: 6690
Joined: 11-10-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Yes, he's actually very good on road this year.
EDIT: Boom, zabel'd!
Edited by admirschleck on 16-06-2014 11:02
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 16-06-2014 11:09
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World Champion
Posts: 14501
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 8500.00
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admirschleck wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
I mean, in the past we had guys like Andy Schleck, Gesink or Hushovd getting a crapload of bad results before they got a stat reduction, and Van Den Broeck gets it after he has 1 crash that ruins his season. As I said a few pages before, there's just no consistency on this matter.
Guys like Gesink, Schleck & Hushovd are already on 74 to 76 in their primary stats, so that's not a proper argument.
But that was never my point. My point was that they needed a lot of bad results before they got their stats reduced, while for other riders that wasn't the case.
"I'm sure Andy will be ok for the Tour"
"Gesink is still suffering from all his crashes"
"Hushovd has some bad luck the last 2 years"
etc.
Those (and other) riders had bad results in races they targeted and didn't get a stat reduction for a long time. VDB crashed out of the 2013 TDF and he did get an immediate stat reduction from 80-81 (whatever he was in 2010-2012) to 78. Andy Schleck was total crap for year before he lost his good stats, the same goes for Gesink, Hushovd and some other guys.
EDIT: Van der Poel had a very impressive Ronde Van België as well, no results but very strong riding.
Edited by Ollfardh on 16-06-2014 11:10
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 29-09-2024 08:22
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Joined: 23.11.09
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| toon83 |
Posted on 16-06-2014 19:49
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Under 23
Posts: 87
Joined: 14-09-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Maddox wrote:
I can make one later today on Adam Yates.
Any further on the yates stats? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 16-06-2014 23:00
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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toon83 wrote:
Maddox wrote:
I can make one later today on Adam Yates.
Any further on the yates stats?
In mountain I guess he's going to be around 75. |
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| Anderis |
Posted on 20-06-2014 19:45
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I completely forgot to remind you about upgrading Talansky's downhill skill. I'm struggling with him in my career on every downhill finish. Did you see him descending on the last stage of Dauphine? He did pretty good job there. He certainly doesn't deserve to have his downhill skill lettting him down in the game, which is the case when he sits on 66. |
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| Martinelli |
Posted on 24-06-2014 12:47
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Amateur
Posts: 3
Joined: 20-10-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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and how looks Thibaut Pinot?
He should be in the top 20 in mountains in my opinion.
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| Kiserlovski01 |
Posted on 24-06-2014 13:13
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4046
Joined: 26-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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What about an MO upgrade for Tony Martin?
Edited by Kiserlovski01 on 24-06-2014 13:26
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| Anderis |
Posted on 24-06-2014 13:23
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Definetely. 70 is way too low. After Tour de Suisse I would say something like 74 would be accurate. 73 at least.
Edited by Anderis on 24-06-2014 13:24
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| Kiserlovski01 |
Posted on 24-06-2014 13:29
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4046
Joined: 26-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Seems fair to me. Some of his other stats ( f.e. DH, REC and END) deserve an upgrade too IMO |
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| Martinelli |
Posted on 24-06-2014 16:07
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Amateur
Posts: 3
Joined: 20-10-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Where I can find list of stats for all of riders? |
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| crazyman2008 |
Posted on 24-06-2014 19:26
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Junior Rider
Posts: 35
Joined: 21-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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download the update and open the database in an editor for example |
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| Anderis |
Posted on 24-06-2014 19:32
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Kiserlovski01 wrote:
Seems fair to me. Some of his other stats ( f.e. DH, REC and END) deserve an upgrade too IMO
Yeah, I don't understand why his DH stat is so low.
About END, I'm not sure. He hasn't any recent achievements in the longest races (AGR, LBL, P-R, RVV or 220km+ stages on GT). |
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| Kiserlovski01 |
Posted on 24-06-2014 20:09
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4046
Joined: 26-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Anderis wrote:
Kiserlovski01 wrote:
Seems fair to me. Some of his other stats ( f.e. DH, REC and END) deserve an upgrade too IMO
Yeah, I don't understand why his DH stat is so low.
About END, I'm not sure. He hasn't any recent achievements in the longest races (AGR, LBL, P-R, RVV or 220km+ stages on GT).
Yeah, he'll never win races like that, but he e.g. could've helped Kwiatkowski in AGR if he hadn't crashed. |
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| atlanta |
Posted on 24-06-2014 23:10
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1220
Joined: 31-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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What i dont get is why Tony could not win them races. im talking about the cobbles, surely a big engine is needed?' Not saying he can win a sprint but why not try like Cancellara and ITT away to the finish. Someone that dominant should be good on cobbles imo, Wiggo proved it is possible and he is lighter than Martin. |
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| nacho63 |
Posted on 25-06-2014 00:07
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Sprinter
Posts: 1944
Joined: 14-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Probably should be discussed else where but have wondered if Martin could cobble if he wanted too. |
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| Martinelli |
Posted on 25-06-2014 09:58
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Amateur
Posts: 3
Joined: 20-10-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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How looks Young riders from orica Yates brothers, Chavez ? |
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| toon83 |
Posted on 27-06-2014 10:26
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Under 23
Posts: 87
Joined: 14-09-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Does anyone have a full stat update on Wout Poels?
I believe he deserves an upgrade but am not sure what he should be upgraded to. |
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